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 Post subject: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Hey board, long time lurker, but I have a few questions I am hoping to get a few answers on. I currently have a EX470 with upgraded RAM running pretty good for me. It is starting to show its age, and the PSU fan seems to be on its way out. I found replacement PSU's for 70 bucks on eBay but it got me thinking, maybe I should upgrade? My unit is mainly for sharing files across my desktop, surface, boxee, backups, and occasionaly away from home Ill jump on it to grab a file or movie. It does this pretty good but when moving too many files at once its pretty much come to a crawl and my boxee cant play movies when this is going on and its just slow. I looked into building a server but id rather just go with off the shelf and I decided on the lower end gen8 from HP. I figure save the hundred bucks instead of going with the top model, save that and when i can next month or so upgrade the CPU i saw on the forums people have swapped them to xeons. So it is at least upgradeable, but my main question is how much performance difference would i see going from my ex470? is the gen 8 that much of a difference in terms of performance? i would run server 2012 on it that i have access to.


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:39 pm 
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I am not quite sure how much of a performance boost your going to see with a dual core Celeron processor vs the EX470. I would imagine that you would see a performance boost being its got a dual core processor and that WS2012 is bit but I would recommend you go with something around a Quad Core Processor especially if you want to use the server for Streaming Content.

The EX470 is showing its age and over time components do begin to fail so keeping them alive can be a challenge but its still a little work horse. I have some PSU Adapter cables and if you wanted to use a standard PSU with your EX470 and did not mind running that PSU outside the Enclosure which would reduce some heat load on the unit I could sell you one. This would buy you some additional time. I also have some Dual Core Processors to provide you some additional performance boost to your EX470 but it would require you to modify the BIOS and if you do not follow the instructions properly you could brick the EX470 or I could sell you an EX470 already upgraded so that you would have a 2nd working unit to play with.

The price for the HP Gen 8 Microserver is very reasonable under $500 the question I would have about one would be if there is enough drive bays to suit your storage needs. Consider this if you wanted to run the OS in a RAID 1 Mirror and also have a backup drive for the OS then you would eat up 3 storage bays just to protect the OS. If you were to run just an OS Drive and then setup a backup for the OS then it would use 2 bays. The backup drive is essential for recoveries should the System Drive ever fail as recoveries are not the same as WHSv1 as your currently use to. So for drive bays running WS2012 I think you limit your expansion capabilities even with the larger hard drives on the market and hard drives are still dropping in prices so why limit your expansion capabilities with just 4 bays and then have to go external to expand your needs.

Having said all that you might do quite well with an HP GEN 8 Microserver and I am not trying to talk you out of going this route just pointing out some things you should consider before purchasing and then finding out you should of put additional thought into it. If you have given thought to this and can live within the capabilities of the server then great the only question remaining is how well will it perform over the EX470 and for me the processor would need to be changed to something more robust to support transcoding if your streaming media within the home or on the internet.

If you want to see what an upgraded EX470 can do I can configure one up with Remote Potato and dump some movies on it and provide you with a link to stream those movies to see how well it does which is something I have never entertained doing in the past because I have more powerful front line servers to handle this task but if it will help you make a decision I will be more then willing to do it for you.

My goal here is not to see you things you do not need but to provide you with options so that you can make a well informed decision.

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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:38 pm 
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For off the shelf I think you would be happy with the power, It's not a hotrod, but either was the 470.
I went from the 470 to the x510 with the intel e-5800 and 4 meg of ram and am happy.

The problem I see is the 4 bays, at least one is going to be the OS. And ya should have one to backup the os so that leaves two bays for the pool. Now you could stuff two 4 tb reds in there and poll them.

I built a DIY, most likely same money but can handle 11 drives. and has a intel I3 low power fast cpu. and 8 meg memory.

Also, two of those bays are sata3 and two are sata 6. Stuff to think about.
I almost bought one but like my build better.
There are lots of cool builds in the DIY thread.
Goodluck

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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:10 pm 
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Gardian wrote:
For off the shelf I think you would be happy with the power, It's not a hotrod, but either was the 470.
I went from the 470 to the x510 with the intel e-5800 and 4 meg of ram and am happy.

The problem I see is the 4 bays, at least one is going to be the OS. And ya should have one to backup the os so that leaves two bays for the pool. Now you could stuff two 4 tb reds in there and poll them.

I built a DIY, most likely same money but can handle 11 drives. and has a intel I3 low power fast cpu. and 8 meg memory.

Also, two of those bays are sata3 and two are sata 6. Stuff to think about.
I almost bought one but like my build better.
There are lots of cool builds in the DIY thread.
Goodluck

To be honest the reason i thought the gen8 would be awesome is i like the fact i can just plop in another drive and it adds to the pool, i dont have to do any raid work. Can server 2012 do this? i know they took that feature away i think in 2011? i saw you bought a non raid sata card for your build, would i need that?


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:12 pm 
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What your referring to is actually done with software not the actual hardware itself. It is true that Microsoft abandoned its work on DE or Drive Extender that was in WHSv1 when WHS2011 was released. To have a similar pooling option that your use to you would need to use a 3rd Party Solution like Driver Bender or Stablebit Drive Pool.

In Windows Server 2012 Microsoft sort of brought back a pooling solution called Storage Spaces which some like and others do not. You can also install Drive Bender or Stablebit Drive Pool on Windows Server 2012 as well or go with a RAID Solution which ever you prefer. I will also mention you can go with a RAID Solution with WHS2011 if you like.

In both WHS2011 and WS2012E I use Stablebit Drive Pool it works well for my needs and I personally see no reason to change my chosen solution anytime soon. Others do like Drive Bender but I have no experience with it but both solutions have been written about on this site. Some forum members have tried both solutions and have different opinions and reason why they might like one over the other.

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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:35 am 
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now im really re-thinking and possibly going DIY. here is a snapshot of a build i threw together i wish the ram was cheaper, i will reuse 4 drives from my ex470 and i have an ssd that i can throw in for the OS.
Image

i cant decide on a motherboard i found these two
ZOTAC H67ITX-C-E LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard($129.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813500064

GIGABYTE GA-Z87N-WIFI LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard($124.99):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -Z87N-WIFI

i am thinking the zotac because it has more SATA out of the box, i only need 5 right now and can always drop in a card but im unsure of the brand. I am open to other suggestions for an mitx board i wasnt sure which chipset is the "one" these days and for a build like this


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:13 pm 
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I went with the GIGABYTE GA-Z87N-WIFI and was able to find drivers for win server 2012 essentials, all except the bluetooth which I didn't need.
I used Stablebit after Comp1962 suggested it, I really like it, I had tried drivebender and storage spaces, to tell ya the truth, stablebit drive pool is super easy and I tried to break it and couldn't.

You can read my build over in the DIY:
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12979

Check out where I changed cases so I could have the DVD drive, but lost 1 harddrive bay inside. I bought the external instead for future expansion.

To tell ya the truth, I don't mind spending money and if the Gen8 would have come with more bays or had some kind of stackable expandable thing I probubly would have dolled out the cash and done it. By the time it was upgraded to the cpu and memory I would want it would have been like 2 grand.$$$$

I just couldn't get past the 4 bays.

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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Thanks for the info I'll check the gigabyte board. I thought there was just more to a dyi Ithink iI'mgoing this route nnow pricing is a little more but faster and upgradeable. I like the seven HDD slots im not sure IPLuse more than that and iI have a USB odd from my surface pro that i can use to load up the os


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:54 pm 
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this is what i think ill order tonight
Image

what do you guys think? i went with the 1150 socket i3 instead due to motherboard selection and i found the 500W of that psu for the same price on newegg right now, with 36 bucks in coupons its 480 shipped to me i think im going to pull the trigger tonight unelss anyone gives me reason why these parts wont be a solid solution?


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:42 pm 
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Word of caution on the SATA Ports. Check to make sure they can support JBOD because if not then you will need to configure them in RAID. This is a hard one to swallow if you encounter this and would require you to get a drive controller card to support the drives you wish to install if your interest is to use software like Drive Bender or Stablebit Drive Pool or if you wish to have drives installed that you want to dedicate to a certain task.

Also make sure the processor you chose is compatible with the motherboard. Check with the motherboard manufacturer who should have a listing of processors known to work with their specific motherboard.

I use to use Zotac boards quite a bit and had good luck with them. They use to offer a lifetime warranty with their boards but now they have backed away from that.

Be sure to read the reviews of a motherboard you have an interest in to see what issues you may encounter along the way. Sometimes the BIOS may present an issue and you may need to upgrade the BIOS for certain things. For me if a BIOS is working I kind of stick with it so long as it does not present a problem but I also review the BIOS revision history to see what it might tell me.

Just make sure that the motherboard will do exactly what you want before you purchase it and that you have all the toys to go with it that are proper to be used on the motherboard to avoid as many headaches as possible with the build. You will encounter things along the way but its just best to verify as much as possible before you purchase your components.

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Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:38 pm 
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how do i find out if it has JBOD support? the GIGABYTE GA-Z87N-WIFI LGA 1150 Intel Z87 doesnt mention it nor does the board i chose ASUS H87I-PLUS LGA 1150 Intel H87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard With UEFI BIOS on newegg specs page. I need JBOD even if i use storage spaces or drivebender?


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:58 pm 
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I can't comment on Drive Spaces because I have never played with it nor have I ever entertained using it.

I would recommend you send the motherboard manufacturer an email asking if the SATA Ports can be used in a JBOD configuration or to rephrase ask if the ports can run drives as individual drives not in a RAID configuration. Typically if a motherboard can support RAID and JBOD it will list it but this is not always the case. Also motherboard with eSATA ports may or may not be port multiplier aware and this is rarely listed. Often you need to look at the chip set which drives these ports to see what they can or can not support.

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Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:05 pm 
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its supports raid 0/1/5/10 i would assume it can run 6 single drives, no esata port just 6 sata 6gbs

"Intel® H87 chipset :
6 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s), yellow
Support Raid 0, 1, 5, 10"

or i found this board but still no mention of JBOD ASRock Z87E-ITX LGA 1150 Intel Z87
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157374


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:13 pm 
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i got a response back from a user on newegg who states they use the board with different drives running individual, so i can say its good to go and order you think?


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 Post subject: Re: EX470 to GEN8
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:18 am 
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hey again guys so i plan to pull the trigger this is a response i got from a user on newegg, it sounds like this board should work with essentials then correct?

"Insofar as I understand your question, yes. I have 2 hard drives in it and they're run as just individual drives. They're not RAIDed or anything like that. I never set up a RAID for it as I didn't want it, but according to the mobo manual, the H87 chipset supports RAID 0, 1, 5, and 10. If by JBOD you mean that the mobo will pool several individual drives into one big single drive, then I don't believe the mobo does that. Although, I'm doing exactly that in software. I'm currently using the mobo in a headless ubuntu server running greyhole to pool the hard drives into a single storage array. Basically like Driver Extender from Windows Home Server V1. I hope this answered your question. "


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