Stuck in a loop
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Author:  dialtonejr [ Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Stuck in a loop

I am having a problem with my WHS hp470 (I think was never really completely sure) Vs It has worked beautifully for me for years now when ever I start it up I have a network critical error stating that "the backup database has errors" so I run the repair option and once it is done it comes up stating that the backup service is not running and I have to reboot. After the restart it comes back with the error that the database has errors so I re ran the repair option.

After the third time it wiped out all my backups. Normally this would cause me some concern because I usually only access the backup server when I need to recover something. This time however my systems are all working perfectly and I only accessed the server because I noticed the one led had gone red. So losing the backups are not of any major concern to me, I can always just start fresh. What is a concern is that I am still getting the database error message followed by the service not running problem and that even though the backups no longer display under their respective computer names the available hard drive space has not increased. It still show as having only 2 tb of available space the rest being used in backups that I no longer have any access to. Oh and I should mention that I did try running the "clean up " function for deleting old or tagged backups but it did not clear up any space on the drives. I am guessing because the backups are no longer associated to anything since they don't appear under the computer names. But this is only me guessing. If I can get back access to the old backups (again not critical) I could just tag them to be deleted and then do a clean up if you think that is safer or somehow recover/clear out all the "backup" space I could start again since all the machines are still working perfectly. Losing the archives is annoying but not at all a big deal for me.

So my 2 questions to the experts out there is:

1)Primarily how do I get out of the error loop until this is fixed I don't expect the rest to be of much use since it will not allow me to do any new backups

2) secondly can I either recover the old backups "easily" or if not somehow clear the drives of the old data to give myself back all the hard drive space so I can start new again.

My system setup is 1 500 gig "Original Primary drive" plus 3 internal 2tb, 4 esata 2tb drives using a startech dock(which I recommend I tried many and this one detects and works very reliably) and 4 usb 2tb. For a total server hard drive space of 22.5 tb with 2 tb of available space. It has worked like this for years now with no issues until just recently.

I appreciate any help you folks can give to help get me back up and running. Not having a backup system makes me nervous. I have had drives crash on me in my computers before and this system has always managed to save my bacon so not having it working has me cringing every time I boot up a computer afraid that one of the drives will take this exact moment in time to die on me.

Author:  Gardian [ Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

I do not know how to clear out the old backup database to get your harddrive space back (I have the same problem) just ignore it because it is on my second server and I do not do backups on it anymore. Maybe somebody knows where the database lives and a safe way to delete it.

But, I have to ask with all those drives, do you have the Free Smart addin to keep an eye on the drives so you will know if one is failing (while you can still change it out before death). It is a must have for me.

Even if you do have Smart installed, are the Ext drives showing up for health in smart? If not, you may want to rotate them around to make sure they are all healthy.

I will do some digging to see if I can find how to remove the old backup database so you can get the space back and start new again.
It has to be in the threads somewhere and I would like to know as well.

Good Luck sorry not much help right now. Great running a 470 this long with that many drives, very cool!! :hp:

P.S. Found a way frond "Comp1962"
Since you want to delete your client backup database the easiest way I know of is to use the ADD-IN BDBB which has the option to do that. BDBB is available for download on this site from the ADD-INS Tab above.


Author:  dialtonejr [ Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

Thanks for getting back to me. I can honestly say I have no "add in" at all running. Up till you mentioned it and I did a little research I didn't even know it was an option. However all the drives do show as healthy on the server storage screen. (I included a photo). I also just added the two addins you suggested so I am ready to give the bdbb a trial run once I am ready to pull the trigger on just starting over. Is there anything else I should do in your opinion in preparation prior to running the bdbb. I noticed it says
" This will permanently delete the current windows home server backup database and all the client computer backups that it contains"
Will I have to reinstall and set up the client computers again? Its been so long I may have to relearn how I originally did that. Just want to check to see if you happen to know if I should do anything prior to help with starting over after its done.

I also tried an experiment where I choose to remove one drive from the system and added a double usb dock to see if when removing the old drive it discarded any of the old data that was not assigned to a specific backup. It didn't it moved the data but never re-assigned it to any of the computers as a backup and it kept the data size the same so it did not discard any of the unassigned data.

Mind you the double usb dock did allow me to increase the size of the available storage. Not that I needed it I just found it amazing just how far I can push that available hard drive space. I suppose I could do it to all 4 of the use drives converting them from singles usb external to double purple internal drives in a dock but that's just more drives to fail later on so I probably will not bother.

I'll hold off on dumping the old database for a couple of weeks just in case someone else happens to have an idea on its recovery or you happen across a method. If it works cool if not no worries Its a good opportunity to experiment. In the mean time I am doing my backups using a buddies buffalo terrastation. But man it's giving me so many hassles I look forward to getting my whs back running.

Hard drive photo.JPG
Hard drive photo.JPG [ 101.66 KiB | Viewed 3145 times ]

Author:  dialtonejr [ Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

Thanks Gardian. I tried to reply with a couple of photo's but it seemed the system didn't accept it. My drive show as healthy on the storage manage screen and I downloaded the file you recommended. Have you ever used BDBB yourself anything I need to know before I set it in motion?

Author:  Gardian [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

No I have not used it because I don't really care about the backups. I have all my clients (family) keep all their data on the server.
I mostly just do the backups just in case one of them managed to get ransomware and got locked out, I could run it back to the day before.

Please, if it works for you and you get the space back, let us know. I need to do the same thing on my backup server.

Good Luck

P.S. Just noticed your pic, I would get the smart addin as that health status showing there will not tell you soon enough. It really only detects when a drive is dead, to late to work with. Smart will tell you long before that health status changes.

Author:  dialtonejr [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

Ok Good News and for some possibly Bad News or rather a little more work news.

After running the application (BDBB) it freed up all my available hard drive space without deleting any of my shared files. So if your running the system as a media server it works great. deleting the old backup used space and freeing it up while keeping your existing media in place. (I would still recommend backing it up anyways just in case your experience differs from mine)

The bad part is for those of us actually using it as a backup device. Even after several reboots which usually fixes this particular problem the computers backup status all show up as unknown. The only way to get rid of this problem was to remove each computer one at a time from the backup list and then reinstall WHS on each computer again by running the setup located in your "\\(your servers name)\Software\Home Server Connector Software" folder under the "WHS connect" shared folders login. Hopefully its still there for you and you don't have to go searching the web for it but its probably here on the forums somewhere if you do need it.

After re running the setup on each of my computers it shows the computers with the "not backed up" status showing its ready and willing to start doing its job again.

So for those looking to delete old inaccessible hard drive space being used by old backups this works great provided your willing to start fresh with all you backups. There is no way I could find to get rid of the backups for one computer and keep the others its an all or nothing so keep that in mind. In my case that was fine all my computers were still working so I could start again it may not be the case with yours.

New hard drive photo.JPG
New hard drive photo.JPG [ 100.77 KiB | Viewed 3105 times ]

Author:  Gardian [ Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stuck in a loop

Thx for the followup, It is good to know that database can be deleted.

I posted this as I always had to google it when doing a reset. Here are the remote ways of installing the connector on the differant OS'es.
I keep having to look this up, so wanted to make a post just for it.
For WHS V1

On your client that you want to connect to your whs v1 server type in the above web address and hit enter.
For WHS 2011

On your client that you want to connect to your whs 2011 server type in the above web address and hit enter.
For Win2012E
http://server-name/connect (or saw this as well) http://<domainname>/connect

Goodluck and enjoy!

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