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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:10 am 
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Hi Chaps,
Well, after a fortnight most of my HP Micro N54L and WHS is running well enough.
I understand I can only backup 2TB and need a disk with sectors of 512.
I have read that some new drives have 512e firmware.
Having spent hours on the web it is entirely unclear (to me) whether any drive can be formatted to 512 and work or, whether it must be one with 521e firmware. As you all know this is hard to discover in any specs!
Furthermore, it seems the fastest way to get data out of the server is by sing the esata connection since all the others are usb 2. So I want a compatible 2tb esata drive or, one that can be sorted easily. About the cheapest drive I can see in UK is the Freecom 56067 2tb (still expensive). Their "help"line seem unclear/unsure as to whether their drive would work.
Lacie seem to be compatible but I wish to keep all my arms and legs!!
Any suggestions please?
Thanks,
Mike.


Last edited by mikefarnham on Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:47 pm 
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I think I am missing something here. WHS2011 will use whatever sector size the drive supports be it 512b or 4K. There still exists a 2TB limit for backups. I can understand your wanting to use the eSATA port for backups since its faster but what are you looking to backup? Is it your storage pool data or your OS?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:48 am 
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Thanks for your reply Comp.
I am wishing to back up my pool, currently at 1.6tb, the operating system 21.1gb and another 1.2gb - Mezzmo on the D drive.

Now I am confused but probably I have misunderstood something.
Here:

http://forum.wegotserved.com/index.php/ ... 2tb-limit/

I read the following, your post would appear to call its accuracy into question or perhaps it is I who is missing something! Would appreciate further advice. BIG THANKS, Mike.

.......................◾WHS 2011 stores multiple versions of server backups if you are backing up to a locally attached drive (i.e. not a network share). This version information is NOT stored within the VHD. So, the total size of all versions of the server backup of a particular volume may exceed 2TB so long as you are backing up the server to a large enough 512e compatible drive. (Versions are stored as Shadow Copies of the VHD files, not Shadow Copies within the VHD files, and are therefore not subject to the 2TB VHD limit.)



***What is a 512e disk?***: WHS 2011 server backup can only store backups on volumes with a 512 byte sector size. Most hard drives under 2TB have a 512 sector size. Most hard drives over 2TB have a 4096 byte sector size. Backup will fail with an “I/O error” message in the Event Viewer if you try to run a server backup onto a volume with 4096 byte sector size.
◾HOWEVER: WHS 2011 can store server backups on a volume larger than 2TB if it supports 512e emulation (this is where the drive firmware emulates a 512 byte sector size despite the actual physical sector size being 4096 bytes). For external drives from Western Digital, reformatting them using WD’s Quick Format utility to the “Most Compatible” or “Factory Default” format option will enable 512e sector size and make them compatible with WHS 2011 server backup. I tested this myself with a 3TB WD My Book external drive.

In summary, if all of your server volumes are 2TB or less, you will have no problems backing up anything on your WHS 2011 server to a >2TB partition on a compatible 512e external disk using the Server Backup Snap-in tool. It only gets complicated when you have individual volumes containing more than 2TB of data, or if your computer backup database is >2TB. For volumes with more than 2TB of data, you can configure separate backups of particular folders using the WBAdmin command line tool. For a backup database larger than 2TB, you might consider a synchronization tool like SyncToy.



I hope this clears up some of the confusion, and I also hope I haven't stated anything incorrectly. Please reply and correct me if anything here is wrong! Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:30 pm 
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I am by no means a 2011 expert, I only played with 2011 for about an hour and didn't like it.
But, how about this?
1) The thread said there was no limit on shares size backups, that's good cause that's where most of our data should be.
2) Who in there right mind would have a server OS that needed to be backed up that was bigger then 2tb? I don't like an OS drive over 500 megs.
3) Clients with 4tb OS drives that need to be backed up. See (2) why on earth would a client have that much data local?

So I don't see this as any problem at all.

My 2012 server OS is on a 160 gig ssd raid1 and it's not full and it's not backed up because it would take about 3 hours to reload it if I had a problem. I'll make an image of it once a year and be done with it.
My clients have 128 to 256 ssd drives that are not full and backup real fast. My clients are not allowed to have extra drives or huge drives.
My shares, now that's where all the data is and that's what I need to backup and there is no size limit on that.

Worse case I could see a client with a small OS drive and a 4tb second drive that holds all there photoshop billions of megs pictures local, which I think would be bad but trying to access huge files over the network to render for hours could be bad..

So, am I all wet, i think this would not be a problem except in really rare exceptions (local data overload)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:55 pm 
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mikefarnham

How is your pool set up or what software are you using to manage the pool. Personally I only backup the most important stuff. Sometimes I back things up not because I need to but for convenience otherwise if you can obtain the data elsewhere its not really worth backing up unless its for convenience.

As far as WHS2011 I only allowed the server to backup the OS drive and that was primarily for server recovery needs and I do the same for WS2012E. Even if I were to setup my System Drive in a RAID 1 Mirror I would still opt to have the server backup just incase there was a failure in the RAID setup.

If your using a storage pool with file and folder duplication then you already have redundancy leaving only the backup in question and how to go about performing that task. To be honest I never thought of the backup function within WHS2011 as useful because I do not store my backups on the server or setting up the server to automate a backup task other then the clients and the servers OS Drive.

I just view backing up the storage pool as a normal process first copying the files to the storage pool and then if they are important to copy them to a backup location of my choice. I personally do not use the shadow copies on the server because all the files I work on are not on the server as they only end up there when they are complete and of the files that may be on the server as say a work in progress as we often do at work the file names change as they are edited often with a date code.

I try to keep my methods as simple as possible and never have I used the server to backup the storage pool so I have never had to address the backup question regarding hard drive limitations so unfortunately I can't actually comment on the 512e topic.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:23 am 
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Thanks for your comments and observations Comp.

Am using Drivebender to manage the pool. The pool has all my media and data. All these files are duplicated but, of course , will all die if the machine itself gets fried.

The operating system has no RAID. Since that and the data on the D drive is less than 25gb it will not take long to backup to any old external drive only using usb 2 or even over my network.

What I am trying to achieve is a separate pool backup on an external drive which is incremental, or similar, every few months so that after the first backup, which will take many hours, the rest are short affairs. If I understand you right, you avoid this by copying your files to the server and another drive simultaneously. I appreciate your point about not bothering to backup files which can be regained easily some other way - movies, c.d.s..............!!!

Best wishes,

Mike.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:20 pm 
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When I fill the internal (mix of shares and backup of shares and client backups) , I will move the shares backups external to one of these:
I am thinking a 4 bay would be good as WD red drives are supposed to be coming out in the 4-5 tb sizes this fall. But an 8 bay might future proof it.
I would want my External Enclosure to be JBOD, the os is the only place I see raid.
Just my 2 cents....

8 Bays:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111181
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817576012

4 bays:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816111194R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816322004

_________________
[X510 CPU/RAM/All 2 TB Red's] [X510 CPU/Sync'ed Backup/All 2 TB Hitachi's]
[X510 /2 in box]
[X710 LIAN LI DIY W2016E] Stablebit Drivepool [EX-503 LIAN LI 5-bay USB3 External]
:twisted: Fear the Cloud :twisted:


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