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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:28 am 
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I am starting up a small business providing professional services. I am working from home. I have a netbook computer and a desktop. However, my wife and kids use the desktop. I use the netbook. Most of the time the netbook works out well but it can be slow using some of the applications that I use -- nothing too fancy just microsoft office, adobe PDF, and quickbooks. Protecting client data from loss is important in my business. I've been backing up my data to the cloud every night but that makes me nervous.

Ultimately, I am going to need a server. I am wondering (1) whether the time is right for me to buy a server like a proliant g7; (2) whether I could save money by putting windows home server on it; (3) and whether I could use the server to run applications like a desktop until I purchase a full notebook.

I like the idea of having a home server that could connect my computers, provide centralized backup for my home and office computers, and serve media to my xbox.

What are my options? Buy a server and use it like a desktop? I've read here that it is possible to run applications on the server like a desktop but that it isn't recommended. Use another OS with the server like linux or Microsoft Server 2008? Or just buy a desktop and put off the server until later.

I'd appreciate any guidance that you may give me. Money is tight. I definitely cannot to buy the wrong equipment.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:38 am 
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If you want to keep things very simple then WHS will provide you with that. WHS is not designed for you to connect to and run applications from the server desktop or to be used as a workstation, for that function you would need something like Server2008 which does not have the backup functions built into WHS. WHS is very inexpensive and simple to use, there are two versions available to you WHS v1 and WHS2011. Both will support backing up 10 clients and allow 10 user accounts. WHS v1 is a 32 bit OS but had a feature for file and folder duplication which WHS2011 does not although others are working on this feature to be added to the server. WHS2011 is a 64bit OS and while it does have some backup functions its not a simple as WHS v1 but not overly complicated either.

If you run Quickbooks and Outlook there are ADD-INs available for WHS v1 for their integration but I am not certain if they developed anything yet for WHS2011.

Both versions of WHS can be used to share your media within the home and online and much has been written about this on this site by Damian and others. I run both WHS v1 and WHS2011 and use them to stream my media content as well as to perform backups and as central storage for my data. I use remote access so I can have access to my files and share certain files with others.

As for your netbook if you are running it with the standard 1gb most of them ship with you may want to upgrade the RAM as that will give you a big boost in performance and by you sometime to determine if you actually need a desktop or not. When at home I would connect a Monitor, Keyboard and Mouse to it to make it abit more comfortable to use if your using it for long periods of time. I actually love netbooks for their portability. I use one for troubleshooting automation equipement, tuning servo motors and some CAD Applications but when working with CAD I connect it to a Monitor, Keyboard and Mouse but really prefer a desktop for that but thats another subject. I do prefer to use a desktop so my use of Notebooks and Netbooks are for on the fly tasks at work on the factory floor.

Anyway I would opt to see if you can improve the performance of your netbook and concentrate your efforts on a server as it will provide you with more bang for your buck until such a time when you can get a desktop. You just have to chose which version of WHS makes the most sense for your needs. I would give this a great deal of though as it appears you are already doing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:27 am 
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Thank you! Upgrading the ram in the netbook was brilliant advice -- I've already purchased and installed the ram upgrade. Its great! $30 and the urgent part of my problem is solved. Now I can comfortably wait until January to buy a server when I will have the following network:

1. Asus EEE Netbook (business use)
2. Lenovo T400 thinkpad (business use - obtained free from a friend!)
3. HP desktop (family use)
4. Xbox (used to stream video to the t.v. currently from the desktop)
5. Ooma VOIP telephone service

I have $1,000 to spend on a computer/server including software. My needs are:

Primary - Business
1. Stability
2. Redundancy - i.e. if the thinkpad crashes I want to be able to access my docs from the netbook and keep working. I currently use sugarsync to sync my files between the netbook and the desktop so that in an emergency I could kick the kids off of the desktop (bad dad).
3. Backups - currently I use Zmanda Cloud Backup to the A3 cloud
4. Remote Access - I'd like to be able to access files my home computers from my netbook when I am in client's location. Also I'd like my accountant to be able to access my quickbooks remotely.
5. Growth potential -- Currently, its just me, the family, and( once a month) the accountant. In the next year, I anticipate having one part-time employee who will need VPN access to the system and microsoft exchange ( I might use google instead but want a system that can handle exchange). The following year, I anticipate 2 - 3 employees.

Secondary - Family
1. Keep files located centrally so that the are backed up and can be accessed from any computer. That way I could let one daughter do home work on the netbook and while her sister works on the desktop.
2. Keep media files centrally and stream video to the television through the xbox.

Applications Used
1. Outlook
2. MS Office - especially word and excel
3. Adobe - PDF mostly but occasionally publisher
4. Quickbooks

How should I best spend my $1,000 to meet these goals? My thought was to spend more on hardware that can grow with me. I was looking at the Proliant G7 though it is apparently very loud. I was thinking about WHS 2011. Server2008 seems like overkill for me right now. Maybe worth it in a couple of years when I have employees.

I'd appreciate any guidance!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Great to hear your netbook is running at a more acceptable performance level. If you want to push it abit more you can try upgrading the hard drive to a WD Black or Seagate Momentous XT. While an SSD would boost it more and they are comming down in price the reliability factor is not quite there just yet.

In looking at all your requirements it appears that WHS v1 is your best option because off your desire to run Quickbooks. There is a company which offers an ADD-IN to allow Quickbooks to be installed on a WHS v1 server. They offer other ADD-INs for MS Office Applications. Below is a link for you to review to see if these ADD-INs will make sense for your needs.

http://www.theofficemaven.com/

You may also want to take the time to contact their customer support to see if they might be working on WHS2011 versions of their ADD-INs and if so when they might be ready for release. This will help you to determine which version of WHS might work out best for your specific needs.

Remote access to the servers and clients is possible with both versions of WHS. I do not allow access to my clients from WHS because I make certain anything I need to work on is on the server itself or on the client I have with me. Everything in this is upto the end user and as you will soon find out there is no right or wrong as to how you approach this.

The cost of the server is going to be determined by how much horsepower you desire and how much drive capacity you desire to have for future growth especiallty if you set the server up for duplication in WHS v1 or drive backup redundancy in WHS2011 or to better simplify if you need 10 TB for storage then you need atleast 20 TB to do it. Think of that when figuring out what your needs are and the growth potential down the road. Always leave yourself with a path for expansion because we always think we start off with more than we need and then we find we need way more than where we started. This depends on what you plan on actually storing on your server. If your looking at ripping you Music and Movie collection you will need lots of space. If its just misc data files and pictures then your needs are not all that great.

The one thing I will tell you not to forget to add into your cost is a UPS to protect the server this will pay off in big dividends down the road especially if you live in an area like where I am where you can expect thunderstorms on a daily basis from Spring to Fall.

As for noise level well servers in general can create a great deal of noise but if you can place the server in a location where noise is not an issue then I would not be overly concerned with the noise factor. Depending on the configuration there is a need to move air through the server for proper cooling. There are fans which can move a great deal of air and are fairly quiet so this is something you will need to take into consideration. Some motherboards can also regulate fan speeds based on need and this might be something to look at too. Some people put speed controls on their fans so they can ramp them up or down based on need. For me I am more concerned with keeping things cool.

All the other things you mention can be very well handled with WHS v1 as well but keep in mind this is a 32 bit OS so if Office Maven the vender with the Add-Ins I mentioned earlier is developing a WHS2011 versions of their software then WHS2011 might be well worth looking into because its a 64 Bit OS and there are companies out their working on a Drive Extender Replacement that Microsoft Removed from WHS2011. The Drive Extender or DE in WHS v1 is the software which duplicates and manages the storage pool making things very simple for the end user. There are 3 companies currently working on DE replacement two are Stablebit Drive Pool and Drive Bender. I forget who the 3rd company is because they are not on the raidar as much. I have played with Stablebit Drive Pool and believe it shows lots of promise and can not comment on Drive Bender. A DE replacement means you can use consumer grade drives for your storage pool. The alternative is a RAID Solution and a good RAID card will cost you if you want Hardware RAID vs Software RAID but if you want simplicity then keep an eye on the DE replacement software currently being developed.

I have given you quite abit to look at and think about but I feel it will put you on a good footing to help you get started. You may want to build your own server but there are many servers new and used available. Oh yea one thing I need to mention about servers is that in WHS v1 you can run a server with multiple processors but this is not the case for WHS2011 as it will only support a single processor but there are many fine processors out there that can get the job done. If you want WHS2011 and multiple processor server then you need the Small Business Server 2011 but it comes with a much bigger price tag and will allow you to support upto 25 clients vs the 10 in WHS2011 and WHS v1.

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Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:31 pm 
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Thanks for taking the time to provide me with such a thoughtful reply. You've given me much to think about and to research!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:31 pm 
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The officemaven says that he is not working on integration for WHS 2011, " at this time." See below.

Hi Daniel,

Alas, I'm afraid not. At this time, I have no plans on porting any of my WHS v1 add-ins over for use with WHS 2011.

I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you on this one.

Mike Craven
The Office Maven
http://www.TheOfficeMaven.com


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:05 pm 
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smbusinessman wrote:
The officemaven says that he is not working on integration for WHS 2011, " at this time." See below.

Hi Daniel,

Alas, I'm afraid not. At this time, I have no plans on porting any of my WHS v1 add-ins over for use with WHS 2011.

I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you on this one.

Mike Craven
The Office Maven
http://www.TheOfficeMaven.com

Hi Daniel,

I had a brief exchange with him and Alexander over at HomeServerLand.com. I've spoken with Alexander quite a bit more, and I think they've got a lot of issues with WHS 2011, mainly its seemingly overbearing complexity.

The WHS v1 API (application programming interface), or object model, is fairly small and straightforward. It uses C# (or VB.NET) and .NET 2.0, development platforms that have been around for several years and are very popular with .NET developers. Developing applications/add-ins for WHS v1 is very straightforward. There are several rules to follow to display things within the Console itself, and the Settings dialogue...things like how big a form may be in terms of pixels, simple stuff like that. Otherwise, the full suite of .NET was at your command.

The WHS 2011 API is actually called the Windows Server Solutions SDK for WHS 2011, Small Business Server Essentials and Windows Storage Server. It's huge, gigantic, enormous, overwhelming and overbearing.

The WHS v1 API could be taught in a 1-credit hour community college course. The WSS API, on the other hand, is an advanced Ph.D. curriculum on par with what you might find at Harvard or Yale. For starters, Microsoft pushes you from traditional C# programming into XAML for the WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation). WPF would be Harvard's undergrad and masters program, then you get into all the things WSS can do, and there's your Yale Ph.D. program.

Long story short, there is a monstrous learning curve...you're pretty much learning a whole new programming language AND a new API. It is something that will require a huge investment in time, and many folks do not write add-ins as their day job. I myself wrote an add-in (Home Server SMART) for WHS v1, and am working on porting it to WHS 2011, but I have a family and a full-time job outside of WHS. When I saw what lay in front of me, I was glad I was sitting down.

I am going to try to "fudge it" by skipping the WPF and sticking with classic "Windows forms," at least for the alpha and beta builds and see how it looks/performs. Microsoft says you can use Windows forms programming, but they really want (hint-hint, nudge-nudge, wink-wink) you to use WPF, and I wouldn't be surprised if with the next service pack they want you to use Metro style apps, which I don't like at all. Yuck!

I hope I'm not putting words in Alexander's and Mike's mouths. I just wanted to give you the low-down of what lies ahead with WHS 2011 development. I think that's a BIG reason why people aren't going gangbusters to write new add-ins or port existing ones. It doesn't help that Microsoft's API documentation sucks, and the examples (which are almost nonexistent) are even more dreadful. So learning the API is really just trial and error... :(

Matt

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