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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:53 am 
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yakuza wrote:
How big is your backup database? You're potentially talking hundreds of gigabytes that appears to change at least weekly and sometimes nightly. Not only will that be slow to upload to S3 even over a fast network connection, but it will be expensive to store. IMHO you are better off taking regular snapshots to a hard drive and rotating it offsite for protection.


I think you are right...if there wouldn't be a weekly cleaning and if I could upload only an incremental backup to S3, then it would be ok. My Databse shouldn't be bigger than 30gb, but this is still too much for a weekly upload :cry:

One more question...The client backup database is the stuff from the clients. If something happens to this database on the whs there are still the files on the clients harddisks, shouldn't that be enough or am I forgetting to think about something?

If the house burns down for example the data from the WHS and from the client is gone, but that would be the same if I backup the clients backup database to an external drive, because this would be in the same house. That's why I like an scheduled backup to a datastore somewhere else.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:58 am 
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Yes, in the event of a home disaster everything will be gone, which is why I suggested rotating the backup drive offsite.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:49 am 
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JohnBick wrote:
For about 500GB of Shared Folders and 515 GB of a Backup Database a full backup via eSATA to a "virgin" disk takes me around 13 hours. (Sorry, I cannot find the paper with my notes and exact timings at the moment. I MAY have posted them above.) After that a typical Sunday takes about 3.5 hours (using XCOPY) and a weekday backup takes about 1/2 hour using XCOPY and just under an hour using RoboCopy. The exact times do vary, of course, depending on file changes the day before. (These times are current and extracted from log timestamps. They should actually be a little longer than you might experience as my target disk is encrypted and that does add a little overhead.) I have an EX475 with 2GB RAM and an LE-1640 CPU.

Thanks for all your work on these scripts. I'm, a n00b here, but just finished reading 35 pages of the BDBB threads and 21 pages of this one!

I just bought 2 EX495s and 4 x 2 TB drives for use as backup servers in my small business. One set arrived last week, and I the second 2nd set will be arriving shortly. These two little boxes will be used only for backups, so there will be no media or other stuff on them.

So each MSS will have its system drive (which I'll call drive 1) and then two "data" drives (2 and 3) which, if I understand DE correctly, will be more-or-less mirrored whenever DE gets around to balancing them.

I've just installed BDBB to enable folder duplication for the backups, and I'm going to start experimenting with your automation script as soon as my next 2 hard drives arrive tomorrow (Amazon Prime FTW!).

I plan on rotating a 4th and 5th hard drive through each MSS as an offline backup of the backups, probably into a fire safe. Questions for John and/or the community:

1) If I alternate physical drives 4 and 5 in the 4th SATA bay in the MSS as unmanaged disks, do I have to fiddle with any settings each time I plug them into the bay? Or just the first time I plug them in? Is there a way to get them both to have the same drive letter automagically?

2) Re: the "Sunday problem" and Robo/Richcopy's incremental copying. Does the Sunday backup change most/some/all of the 4 GB chunks? Does the incremental copy feature of Robo/Richcopy actually save any time vs. a brute force copy of the entire folder, since my use case is only for the WHS backup database?

3) Has anyone seen appreciable differences in speed between the internal SATA bays vs the eSATA port vs Gigabit to another NAS?

4) Has anyone a good source for extra/replacement drive trays? Amazingly, google returns zero results for 'mediasmart server "replacement drive tray"'. <-- I'd link that, but I'm not allowed yet :D

5) Is there anything else critical that I've forgotten to think about?

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:48 pm 
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yakuza wrote:
Yes, in the event of a home disaster everything will be gone, which is why I suggested rotating the backup drive offsite.


Alex,
That was one of the issues I was still concerned about - some site disaster or theft taking both clients and server at once. Rotating offsite backups seemed to be the only real option until I ran across IO Safe, hardened storage units. They offer fire and water resistance and can be mechanically secured (bolted down or cable locked.) and are reasonably priced. (No, I'm not a sales person for them)

The only shortcoming is that they connect using the USB interface which limits the distance from the server. Ideally, I'd like to put them at opposite ends of our facility.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:40 pm 
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First, apologies for the delay responding. I have been (big-time) distracted of late!

stevenkan wrote:
Questions for John and/or the community:


1) If I alternate physical drives 4 and 5 in the 4th SATA bay in the MSS as unmanaged disks, do I have to fiddle with any settings each time I plug them into the bay? Or just the first time I plug them in? Is there a way to get them both to have the same drive letter automagically?

Been a while since I actually did this but I believe they get the same letter if in the same slot. (Check to be sure.)

2) Re: the "Sunday problem" and Robo/Richcopy's incremental copying. Does the Sunday backup change most/some/all of the 4 GB chunks? Does the incremental copy feature of Robo/Richcopy actually save any time vs. a brute force copy of the entire folder, since my use case is only for the WHS backup database?

It appears to change MOST of the files. (Not all and it varies over time.) Incremental copying only saves a little time on Sunday but a LOT on Mon - Sat!

3) Has anyone seen appreciable differences in speed between the internal SATA bays vs the eSATA port vs Gigabit to another NAS?

SATA bays a little faster than eSATA but not enough to concern me for my backups. I have not personally attempted comparisons to a NAS but two of my clients have. One said it was a bit slower but not of significant concern; the other found it almost unusable. When he used a different NAS it got better. Neither client continued with the use of a NAS unit.

4) Has anyone a good source for extra/replacement drive trays? Amazingly, google returns zero results for 'mediasmart server "replacement drive tray"'. <-- I'd link that, but I'm not allowed yet :D

These are a very rare commodity. Good luck! (I gave up even looking!

5) Is there anything else critical that I've forgotten to think about?

Probably...! Growth is actually the key concern. Once your data reaches a certain size it has to be split between disk drives. THAT becomes painful. Surprisingly, I have reached that point but only one of my clients has! (He got another WHS unit and uses one for backups and the other for shares. As far as I know he expects to get away with that for another 18 months (or more) in spite of having some wicked growth in business.)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:34 am 
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Lazer wrote:
lol, thanks for the smack back to reality...i think ill just stick with robocopy and run the got darn thing already

one last question about
Quote:
And one last reminder... DO NOT CLOSE YOUR REMOTE SESSION WHEN THIS IS RUNNING as the script will terminate.


so when i RDP and run it, i cant close out the window? does that mean i have to leave my computer on? i thought if i X out the RDP window that whatever is running or transferring will still continue doing so unless you turn off the actual server

what about the scheduler? will that just run automatically? does this apply to that too?


Yes you can. Unless the server reboots or is configured to auto-reset idle connections, your processes will continue after you close the window. Just don't log out of the server. When you reconnect with the same credentials as the last connection you will be returned to the previous session. Unless, again, if the server reboots or is configured to auto-reset idle RDP sessions, or if you are already logged in under those credentials from another client.

The scheduler is a service and runs regardless of anyone being logged in at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:48 pm 
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rrward wrote:
Yes you can. Unless the server reboots or is configured to auto-reset idle connections, your processes will continue after you close the window. Just don't log out of the server. When you reconnect with the same credentials as the last connection you will be returned to the previous session. Unless, again, if the server reboots or is configured to auto-reset idle RDP sessions, or if you are already logged in under those credentials from another client.

While this may generally be true, there have been numerous situations where closing the window actually does cause processes to terminate. YMMV, but I definitely try to avoid this if possible. (The last time it failed for me was yesterday afternoon; I was in a rush and took a chance!)

rrward wrote:
The scheduler is a service and runs regardless of anyone being logged in at all.

I completely agree with this. Once I open a session tho, I do not close it until the backup is complete. (This may be paranoia based on manual experience; not sure if I have ever actually tried it with a scheduled run!)

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