It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:51 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]

Recent News:



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Disk Defragg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:25 pm 
Offline
Top Contributor
Top Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:46 pm
Posts: 828
Location: Texas
Thanks: 13
Thanked: 51 times in 49 posts
What is the story behind disk defrag?
1/2 of what I read says that it is needed & the other 1/2 says that there is no benefit in it.

Should I get it?

If so wich one?

Also which addons are recomended for a newbie like me?

I have added
Avast, Advanced Admin Console, Auto Exit 2008, Client Info, Event Viewer, Led Light Show, Lights Out, MSS Fan Control, Tab Reorderer, Whiist, Whs Disk Managment.

Although I think that I will get very little use from most of them.

I am new to WHS. My day job has nothing to do with computers.
I use WHS only to store pictures and video & also for backups.
I have just started looking at other things that WHS might be good for.
(Maybe one of the new HP mediasmart connects)

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Forgive my spelling & grammer I only have a 3rd grade GED. :lol:

P.S. I have a stock 470 with 2T of internal storage & 500 GB external for WHS shares backup feature.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  

Attention Guest: Remove this ad by Registering with the MediaSmartServer.net Forums. It's Free!
 Post subject: Re: Disk Defragg
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:29 pm 
Offline
2.0TB storage
2.0TB storage
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:29 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Thanks: 4
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post
CBick, welcome to the forums. There are a great group of people here that will surely help you get going... In a few weeks you'll be the neighbourhood expert and will be helping friends and family setup their own MSS's. 8)

CBick wrote:
What is the story behind disk defrag?

Defrag is built into WHS and IF you ever get a notification that a drive needs to be 'repaired' the system will run defrag. Nothing for you to "get" as you already have it.

CBick wrote:
Also which addons are recomended for a newbie like me?

Well you have quite a list that you've already downloaded. I'm not sure I'd be that ambitious right outta the gate. Here's what I use,
Advanced Admin Console (saves having to use RDP for simple things that can't be accessed from the console)
Remote Notification (nice to know at the office if and when a problem comes up at home) - Great app Alex!
Grid Junction (UPS monitoring/management - currently in private beta)
MediaSmart Server Drive Labeler (Thanks Jerry for correcting a silly labeling bug - still in PP1)
Windows Home Server Toolkit(Just because & just incase)

On MSS I never really found that WHS Disk Management particularly useful, Whiist had some early problems with MSS (evidently fixed now) but not needed usless your going to build and host your own custom websites. Avast >> probably a good choice considering some of the early problems people have been reporting with McAfee, although either should work fine.

Bottom line......
CBick wrote:
Although I think that I will get very little use from most of them.

If you don't think you will use them don't install them, especially if you've not upgraded the RAM in your MSS. Add-Ins can slow your system down alot so use only those you need.... or upgrade the RAM. :lol:

All the best & I hope this helps.....

BTW.... It looks like you've got a good amount of disk space so you must have some big plans! 8)


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:45 pm 
Offline
2.5TB storage
2.5TB storage

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:42 pm
Posts: 363
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 9 times in 9 posts
Never use the built-in defrag on WHS, like what's in WinXP. It counters what WHS does to the files. You'll need a 3rd party. I use PerfectDisk. The WHS license also comes with a license for 1 other PC.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:18 am 
Offline
1.5TB storage
1.5TB storage

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:45 pm
Posts: 80
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 2 times in 2 posts
I too use perfect disk. The cost is a lot less than the diskeeper products and it is not crazily locked down with activation mechanisms. With you WHS license you do get a free license to run on your desktop pc. Can't beat that offer. Diskeeper has a few patented techniques for defragging, but I am not sure whether this is snake oil or really enhances performance.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:52 am 
Offline
Top Contributor
Top Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:46 pm
Posts: 828
Location: Texas
Thanks: 13
Thanked: 51 times in 49 posts
Thanks! tojofi

To be honest I don't have any plans as of yet for all of that storage.
I'm real anal about things and could not stand to see 3 empty bays without hard drives. Drives my wife nuts! :wink: I still have 91% free space.

I took your advice and uninstalled most of the addons exept for Advance Console, Avast, Led Light Show & Whiist.

I kept the Whiist because one of these days I am thinking of putting together a High School Reunion website. (if I ever get around to it.) That way we can stop the pay for site that we currently use. Though I feel that I may be getting in over my head on this one.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:58 am 
Offline
Top Contributor
Top Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:46 pm
Posts: 828
Location: Texas
Thanks: 13
Thanked: 51 times in 49 posts
Thanks Mitch & Revengineer


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:04 am 
Offline
2.5TB storage
2.5TB storage

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:42 pm
Posts: 363
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 9 times in 9 posts
512MB of ram is causing your troubles.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:46 pm 
Offline
1TB storage
1TB storage
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:37 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Duvall, WA
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post
I'm also using the WHS version of PerfectDisk. However I'm considering changing the Defrag method. One of my 500GB drives only has 20GB free, and the initial defrag with PerfectDisk, using the SMARTPlacement method, took 42 hours to complete. A week later, it's on it's second scheduled defrag as I type this, using SMARTPlacement, and has taken 5 hours so far and is only 80% complete with that drive.

I'll probably switch to "Defrag only" after this, since I don't like the idea of a defrag spilling over into the nightly backup timeframe.

_________________
MSS | HP EX470 w/ 2GB RAM and 4x 500GB HDD
UPS | APC CS 350 (210 Watts, dedicated to MSS)


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:08 pm 
Offline
Mr. XXX
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:01 pm
Posts: 431
Thanks: 4
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Ill look where I read this but I changed my setting for defrag from smart to just defrag. Smart changes your free disk space as well and Ive read a few places that this totally messes up the WHS and how it allocates from disk to disk.

_________________
HP MediaSmart- 2GB RAM - Upgraded CPU LE-1620
APC UPS - 1300VA
10.5 TB ( 6.5 for Data 4 for backup )
CFI ESata 4 Bay Enclosure
San Digital 4 Bay Enclosure-USB ( for backup )
3 Apple TVs - Streaming from MSS
2 Xbox 360 - Streaming from MSS


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:14 pm 
Offline
1TB storage
1TB storage
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:37 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Duvall, WA
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post
Switching from SMARTPlacement to Defrag Only reduced the time required to defrag my very full 500GB drive (only 20GB free) from over 6 hours on the last run with SMARTPlacement to just over 2 hours with Defrag Only.

_________________
MSS | HP EX470 w/ 2GB RAM and 4x 500GB HDD
UPS | APC CS 350 (210 Watts, dedicated to MSS)


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:35 am 
Offline
Max Contributor
Max Contributor

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:17 pm
Posts: 1140
Location: Roseville, California
Thanks: 10
Thanked: 24 times in 22 posts
I thought there was discussion here that defrag in general hurts the WHS? I could swear that people meantioned that the white pages said not to run one at all.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:48 am 
Offline
2.5TB storage
2.5TB storage

Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:42 pm
Posts: 363
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 9 times in 9 posts
I read that about the built-in defrag, but not 3rd party.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:38 pm 
Offline
Top Contributor
Top Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:49 am
Posts: 574
Location: Manchester CT
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 17 times in 15 posts
This topic pops up every year or so! Years ago (like 15), Windows hard drives really needed to be defragged. However, starting with Windows XP, there is no real need and some defrag programs actually slow down the hard drives after running.

Maximum PC magazine did an article that debunked the claims of defragging programs.

My advice, skip defragging hard drives. You will NEVER notice the difference.

_________________
John E Pombrio
Do not meddle in the affair of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:05 pm 
Offline
2.5TB storage
2.5TB storage

Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:18 pm
Posts: 310
Location: Reading, PA
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 4 times in 4 posts
Whoa there Hoss. I've also seen claims that RAID drives don't get fragmented. I say - hogwash! FAT, FAT32, NTFS - they ALL can get fragmented. It might not be as big a hit with some as it is with others, but if that 20GB file you're trying to copy has 2000 fragments it WILL take longer to read then if it was all contiguous.
That said - the internal Windows defrag (basically Diskeeper Extra-Lite) is next to worthless. As is the full Diskeeper product. Even when doing an at-boot defrag with Diskeeper (the only way to fix MFT and pagefile fragmentation), it often either leaves fragmented files or the free space fragments so the very next large file you copy to your drive becomes fragmented. No matter what options you use, etc. I have discovered a program that actually works though, except the system must be shut down and you have to boot from another method, like a bootable CD with DOS. Partition Manager Server Edition not only can resize and redistribute partitions without losing your data, but it has a VERY effective defrag tool - one that truly leaves the disk fragment-free AND all the free space is gathered to one place. I've used this to first redistribute space between my XP and Linux partitions, then finally remove the Linux and allocate it all to XP. I've also used this to fix servers where the C drive wasn't made big enough.
We have drifted far off topic here, the issue was what to do with WHS and the MSS. I don't think I'd trust anything unless it specifically says it works with WHS and the DE. I'd be VERY afraid if folder replication was turned on. I think it would be VERY easy to confuse the file pointers and render most if not all of your data unreadable. But then I'm kind of paranoid.

--Randy


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:36 pm 
Offline
1TB storage
1TB storage
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:37 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Duvall, WA
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 1 time in 1 post
I would agree the Disk Defragmenting is not as critical a task as it once was when Hard Drives were much smaller and slower, but to say it is completely unnecessary is a bit naive. Which OS you are using might make some difference in regards to how the file system works, but regardless of which operating system you use, your hard drive will become fragmented with use. Over time, that file fragmentation leads to reduced performance and increased wear-and-tear on your drives.

On my WinXP gaming machine, I used to defrag before my monthly LAN party, and it would sometimes take up to several hours because of all the deleting and writing I had done during that month. I finally setup Defrag on a nightly schedule it got it down to 4 minutes a night.

For my WHS I was concerned enough about it to purchase PerfectDisk 2008. They have a WHS version that runs as an add-in. It runs weekly and has done a great job of consolidating all the free space on my drives, which is particularly nice given that WHS likes to cram drives as full as they can go before writing anything to an empty drive.

*** EDIT ***

Was this the Maximum PC article you were referring to?

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/the_di ... difference

If so, you'll notice that in their conclusion they didn't say Defragmenting wasn't necessary, they only said that for Vista there wasn't any need to replace the built in defragmentor with a 3rd party version. But they even raise doubt about their own conclusions because the machine they tested on was not very fragmented to begin with. They absolutely took the stance that Defragmenting is necessary.

_________________
MSS | HP EX470 w/ 2GB RAM and 4x 500GB HDD
UPS | APC CS 350 (210 Watts, dedicated to MSS)


Top
 Profile  
Thanks  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group