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Will You Be Upgrading To Vail?
Yes 36%  36%  [ 18 ]
I will test out the beta before deciding 20%  20%  [ 10 ]
Not in its current form, too many features missing 44%  44%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 50
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:36 pm 
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Zen wrote:
That's true, but wouldn't you want to have the new server up and running for a while without any problems before moving your data over? I would.

The other alternative would be to install Vail on your existing hardware, and copy the data from the old pool drives by connecting them to another Windows machine. Not as simple to do, but it's possible.


I would probably just run on a test PC first. The problem though is that right now my WHS is 16 HDDs (20TB), so I would have to build another monster server and purchase more drives to be able to move from one server to another. I don't mind doing another build, but you can see why this would be a rather expensive migration.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:25 pm 
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I'm certain that I will move into a Vail system but, it will be through the purchases of the next version of the HP MSS instead of upgrading the servers that I already own.

I'm not willing to lose the HP supplied software for a plain vanilla WHS.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:13 pm 
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Seeing as how my current hardware is maxxed out and I need to build a new server anyway - my answer is "heck yeah". The advantages of 2008 R2 over antiquated 2003 (this is a 7 year old OS, people!) alone make it worthwhile. Such features like support for the new HDDs with 4KB block sizes and no offset problems. 10 drives? The Beta notes say 16 is the tested limit, both numbers more than I have now, or will need especially with the ability to use 2TB drives. Can't pull the drive out and read it in another system? Well, since I built my current server in October '08 I haven't had to touch the thing other than apply server updates, and add a couple extra drives when I filled up the initial configuration. That's what I love about this stuff, it's quiet and reliable - I used to have more servers than some of our clients, running a file server, a mail server, and a second file/database server for programming. After spending all day working on client systems, the alst thing I want to do is come home and mess around with my own servers, I want to just fire up my Popcorn Hour and watch a movie. WHS has been ultimately reliable, and while I haven't had to use any of them, the PC backups are reassuring. I don't expect Vail will be any less a finished product when it ships. Of course betas will be missing some bits, but the whole point of opening it up is to get those things all polished before going gold.
Par of the reason I haven't been around here lately is the total reliability of WHS - once I got everything up and running I really haven't had any issue, let alone ones I needed extra help with. It was seeing the article on ArsTechnica about Vail goign public beta that got me looking back here again to see what was being said about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:48 pm 
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I have all of my files backed up on drives outside of my WHS servers. IF the new version can handle 21 drives I will upgrade my Norco 4220 to it and then put all of my files onto it. If it cannot handle 21 drives then the Norco will stay with the current version of HWS and I might purchase a new server because of the newer 4k drives coming out. I am leary, but not well enough informed, of some of the issues being faced with the current WD EARS drives.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:40 pm 
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jeffla wrote:
...With the file system no longer accessible from a generic windows pc, I'm leaning towards no....


If that is true there is no way in Hell I will upgrade. This was a major point in why I opted to go this route. When compared to the Drobo, it was a no brainer. If anyone wonders why, research drobo and HDD recovery, and you will most likely find what the cost involved in recovering your data is. :shock: One I ran across was upwards of $12,000 USD. Needless to say, I do not care for proprietary file systems.

Can anyone else confirm that you cannot read from an alternate Windows OS with NTFS support, to be the case?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:41 pm 
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I installed Vail on an EX470 today and it was a very smooth install now I am just exploring it to become familiar with it. I have not set any clients to join the server for backups yet. I will have to give that one some thought. My first impression is Vail appears to be more robust and so far I like what I see. I am going to give myself a few days to explore Vail then over the weekend I will see how flexible Remote Access is with it. I already have 2 servers I can remote with which took me a while to figure out to get it to work but now I will want to do the 3rd so I am hoping Vails remote access configuration is indeed more flexible then WHS-1.

I think if MS can work out the bugs with the drive extender then I would be very well pleased. Of course the true test will be to install vail on my primary server on a test set of drives just to make sure I do not run into any hardware incompatabilities which I do not antisipate but need to check and verify.

So I am just checking things out before I make a decision but so far it looks very good.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:58 pm 
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I checked, and subsequently voted No, while it is not as bad as the Drobo, it is limiting an individuals ability to retrieve their data. If my system crashes and I do not have another Vail system or cannot afford to fix/replace the one I have, my data is NOT accessible. That is not an acceptable backup scheme. If your primary use is just to serve media, no problem, if you use your system to backup data, Vail is not a solution.

I still can use my current system as is, I just will not have an OS to upgrade to if my needs change. My main concern now that I am stuck with this particular OS, is... How long will MS/HP support it, and how long will developers support the plugins for it.
:( :? :(

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:30 am 
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I think its too early to tell just like the 10 drive limitation mentioned in the reviews only to go to Microsofts site to find that its more like a recommendation because at 10 drives its hmmm like stable and beyond that there are issues. Now its like 16 drives so who knows what tomorrow will bring. Maybe there might be a utility to allow you to pull your data off the drives but it still remains to be seen. The DE DISK is listed as FAT32 which is interesting and in the properties the DE DISK has a connection type listed as RAID.

What I am interested in is Vails ability to back itself up but when you check that out it wants a drive be it internal or external physically attached to the server. I was really hoping to have the data be sent to another device on my network. Having the data accessible from a central storage device like WHS is great but it should never be the only means of backing up your critical data. For example I have access to everything on my server else where so I have access to everything should something horrible happen to my server but I would also like to have the ability to back it up to another device on my network like to one of my other servers.

I also know its to soon to tell exactly what the end product will offer. Right now we are only getting a peek of what it might look like but things can change. So far I like what I see but likeing what I see and using it are two differnt things so in a week from now I might still like what I see but might not be happy with its performance not so much because its running on an EX470 which I can antisipate speed issues but on how it actually works and I already know to antisipate bugs but that why its Beta.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:42 pm 
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I wish I saw this thread yesterday. I decided to test Vail on my build & for some reason I could not figure out why the system could not see my JBOD on the Adaptec Raid Controller that had 12 2T drives. Little did I know I was running into a drive limitation. As of yesterday I had made up my mind & was going to rule out Vail. I guess I am back in the running & will be doing some more testing with fewer drives this time

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:09 pm 
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TAdams wrote:
I checked, and subsequently voted No, while it is not as bad as the Drobo, it is limiting an individuals ability to retrieve their data. If my system crashes and I do not have another Vail system or cannot afford to fix/replace the one I have, my data is NOT accessible. That is not an acceptable backup scheme. If your primary use is just to serve media, no problem, if you use your system to backup data, Vail is not a solution.

I still can use my current system as is, I just will not have an OS to upgrade to if my needs change. My main concern now that I am stuck with this particular OS, is... How long will MS/HP support it, and how long will developers support the plugins for it.
:( :? :(


Server 2003 is ALREADY end of life. It seems like there's no reason the file system access couldn't be enabled with a driver, like loading an ext3 driver in Windows to access a linux partition. Plus backups can now be duplicated, I guess they likes Alex's add-in so much they decided to build it in to the system. A drive going belly up should not cause you to lose a thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:06 pm 
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Still on the fence at this point, will have to wait and see how it runs and any issues that arise.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:47 pm 
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I expect WHS v1 will be supported for quite a while, at least 2-3 years. I plan to continue working with and support my Add-Ins in v1, in fact listen to the next HomeServerShow podcast that should be coming out tomorrow for more about that. :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 9:00 pm 
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yakuza wrote:
I expect WHS v1 will be supported for quite a while, at least 2-3 years. I plan to continue working with and support my Add-Ins in v1, in fact listen to the next HomeServerShow podcast that should be coming out tomorrow for more about that. :D


I would be VERY VERY surprised if they kept 2003 development alive internally just to support WHS. Mainstream support for 2003 and 2003 R2 ends this July, that means only security updates after that up to 2015. Service pack support ended April last year. I guess it depends on how many people buy in to the extended hotfix support program - I know we are converting clients like crazy to Server 2008. I have a feeling the WHS is under internal pressure to get Vail done.

That doesn't mean there won't be plenty of WHS v1 systems running for some time to come. Just don't expect any fixes or updates for the base OS components.

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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 10:17 pm 
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I probably wasn't clear in my meaning. I expect WHS to be supported by Microsoft for a while yet, by supported I mean that we will continue to see Server 2003 security updates and possibly WHS updates though likely only security or important bug fixes for WHS. I do not expect to see any new Server 2003 features delivered to WHS.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Ya know I had an old 60's chevelle that ran just fine, and Chevy didn't support it either.
I kinda wish I still had that old car.

Point: Everything new isn't necesarily best.

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