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 Post subject: Software over PC vs Mac
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:29 pm 
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Hello all,

i found this place a few weeks ago when I was searching for a HP mediasmart. what a great place and such great information to help me learn. i have one question and hopefully you all can help or just point me in the right direction.

i use mac's primarily throughout my home. I'm going to borrow a work pc to set the server (ex495) up when i get it. it will then go back to work and i will use the mac software control to do what i need to do. my question is what things won't i be able to do over the mac and will maybe need the pc for?

can you guys give me some examples or somewhere maybe a list is compiled.

thanks alot,
jimi


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:20 am 
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There are a few people on the site who do use MAC's and I am surprised no one has taken the time to help you out.

Now my MAC experience is limited but I do have an older unit here in the house but it runs OS X10.3 but I have played with it with the servers mostly for file shares but it has a tendancy to forget about the server share folders I told it to mount but thats another story and its not the end of the world.

The least expensive way to work with your server is to get a copy of Terminal Services that will run on your MAC. I believe you can download it from Microsoft.com. Once you have it installed on your MAC you can simply connect to your server with that and access its desktop and run the control panel in its native environment. Terminal Services for the MAC should be a free download.

When you use terminal services just use the servers name for the computer is asks you to connect to or if you know your servers IP address you can use that too but the Server Name is much easier to remember.

When you get to the logon screen the User Name is: Administrator and the Password is: the same password you gave the server when you first set it up. Do not try to use your user name and password as it will not work. It specifically wants the Adminstrator and the Server Password.

Once on the server you will get a nice warning telling you not to go adjusting your server from the desktop. Its to put the fear of the HP and MS Gods into you after all if you do mess something up it is headless so if it shuts down and encounters a problem then you have a headache on your hands.

Having said that there are times when you will need to do somethings from the desktop but for the most part everything you need to do can be done from the Servers Console and you will see the ICON for it on the servers desktop once you close down that warning message.

So once on the desktop you just click on the Server Console and its no different then using a PC.

As for performing a server recovery with a MAC I am not so sure. I know you can install Windows on a MAC but thats upto you. But if it were me I would just go borrow a notebook and do the restore from there. However the EX49x servers are different then the previous EX47x and EX48x and the recovery is not as smooth but there are some great discussions on how to do a recovery on the EX49x series MSS that I suggest you look for so you have a full understanding of the machine you have.

I hope this helped clear up a few things for you and should you have additional questions please do not hesitate to ask.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:46 am 
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I only just saw this, I am a complete mac user, I even setup my ex485 using parallels, I can do everything through remote desktop, I don't miss anything at all, I think the 3.0 upgrade will just make it better, I don't use it for time machine, I just use it for storage and a backup of my RAID 0 on my mac pro, it also runs the backup on bootcamp and on my separate parallels install. Let me know any specifics you want to know about, and if I haven't done it I will try it for you.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:33 am 
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Comp1962 wrote:
There are a few people on the site who do use MAC's and I am surprised no one has taken the time to help you out.

Now my MAC experience is limited but I do have an older unit here in the house but it runs OS X10.3 but I have played with it with the servers mostly for file shares but it has a tendancy to forget about the server share folders I told it to mount but thats another story and its not the end of the world.

The least expensive way to work with your server is to get a copy of Terminal Services that will run on your MAC. I believe you can download it from Microsoft.com. Once you have it installed on your MAC you can simply connect to your server with that and access its desktop and run the control panel in its native environment. Terminal Services for the MAC should be a free download.

When you use terminal services just use the servers name for the computer is asks you to connect to or if you know your servers IP address you can use that too but the Server Name is much easier to remember.

When you get to the logon screen the User Name is: Administrator and the Password is: the same password you gave the server when you first set it up. Do not try to use your user name and password as it will not work. It specifically wants the Adminstrator and the Server Password.

Once on the server you will get a nice warning telling you not to go adjusting your server from the desktop. Its to put the fear of the HP and MS Gods into you after all if you do mess something up it is headless so if it shuts down and encounters a problem then you have a headache on your hands.

Having said that there are times when you will need to do somethings from the desktop but for the most part everything you need to do can be done from the Servers Console and you will see the ICON for it on the servers desktop once you close down that warning message.

So once on the desktop you just click on the Server Console and its no different then using a PC.

As for performing a server recovery with a MAC I am not so sure. I know you can install Windows on a MAC but thats upto you. But if it were me I would just go borrow a notebook and do the restore from there. However the EX49x servers are different then the previous EX47x and EX48x and the recovery is not as smooth but there are some great discussions on how to do a recovery on the EX49x series MSS that I suggest you look for so you have a full understanding of the machine you have.

I hope this helped clear up a few things for you and should you have additional questions please do not hesitate to ask.


Hey thanks alot for the post! I was beginning to think there was no one out there! LOL

I know it's hard to ask Mac questions on what is mostly a windows board. The terminal service you are talking about it the remote desktop for mac correct. i found that yesterday through the reviews on this site. I actually had a friend who has a Mac or 2 in his house try it out and he said it works great. At least I have one solution so thank you very much!

When I think about it now if I ever had to do a system recovery I would not take the chance on a Mac prob and just grab my buddies field computer that they use for setting up their automation system's in people's house. That's the computer that I'll use to set it up the first time so I'll be good there.

So HP told me that the new 3.0 software is suppose to really help Mac users out. They said pretty much all the same control is there.

For the mounting issue you had. I use that automountmaker program for the Mac. it works great to make sure my disks are in the finder when my computer comes out of sleep. i know you can also go through accounts/login items through pref plane. that works real good to.

so back to a laptop for use. I really do need to get a cheap ol windows computer in our house. I have a nuvo grand concerto dist. audio system in our house and whenever i want to add something new to it or update the FW or make any changed to my scenes for my lights throughout my home I got to call Bob and ask him for their field computer. i know he doesn't mind but it's just a pain. so. . . if I was to get a laptop that is windows based what would you recommend? would a netbook from eeepc be enough or should i just get a plain ol' HP and at least have a drive in it for disks. with the netbook I wouldn't have a drive.

oh last thing. . . . security. i'm used to my mac's. no virus programs needed and such. do i have to do anything diff with adding the whs? just make sure my firewall is up?

again thanks alot! :mss: great place to learn btw! alot is wayyy over my head but that's ok makes me try harder!

jim m.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:48 am 
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watteau wrote:
I only just saw this, I am a complete mac user, I even setup my ex485 using parallels, I can do everything through remote desktop, I don't miss anything at all, I think the 3.0 upgrade will just make it better, I don't use it for time machine, I just use it for storage and a backup of my RAID 0 on my mac pro, it also runs the backup on bootcamp and on my separate parallels install. Let me know any specifics you want to know about, and if I haven't done it I will try it for you.


he ythanks for the info. i never ran parallels on a mac. years ago when i got my first macbook (95 i think) i ran virtual pc when it first came out and that was a painful experience! i know it's totally diff now.

so through the remote desktop there is nothing diff at all? you can do the conversion of movies feature? what about the photo sharing features?

i don't use time machine either. i pretty much back up my user folders and that's it. if anything goes wrong at least i got all my prefs and all other impt info. if i have to rebuild a machine i can reinstall everything on my own. no big deal. i make sure i always have a backup folder in there with keychains, bookmarks,ical export, address book export and a few other things impt to me.

pretty much the whs is going to be where my photo's are stored for editing. photography is one of my favorite hobbies. i'm also going to have all my lossless music on there for streaming for my 2 channel setup and then when once i get used to all this my next project is movie backup for streaming.

my plan is to keep everything on the whs to access it and then have a separate HDD that i'll keep somewhere else for pics. and other stuff i can't ever reproduce.

does that all sound logical?


thanks again for the help! :sanjuan:

jim m.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:55 am 
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Hey guys one last thing.

I know I have ot read up and learn about system recovery. (hopefully i'll never have to use it!) But is there there anything else I should learn about now?

Oh I have a question. i have read about people using the main HHD for just the server and it's files. when I add a new HHD can I direct all my files to it only instead of the main HHD so if I ever want to replace that drive it will be easier? Or don't I have the choice where data is going it just goes to all the drives setup on the machine? I guess my question is how do I make it easy for when I want to update the system or replace a HHD with a new larger one. Can you guys point me in that direction?

thanks,
jim m


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:37 am 
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You cannot "direct" new files to any particular place (HDD). This is all managed by the Drive Extender logic. Normally the DE logic will place new folders on the disk with the most available free space, with one big exception -- it will NOT place anything on the System Disk unless there is no other place to put the files.

It is possible to re-balance the storage manually but one should not do this routinely. Many of us like to have the System Disk clear of data and, once cleared, it should remain that way. The preferred method for doing this is to use the Drive Balancer Utility. But do it once and then let DE handle things.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:05 am 
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JohnBick wrote:
You cannot "direct" new files to any particular place (HDD). This is all managed by the Drive Extender logic. Normally the DE logic will place new folders on the disk with the most available free space, with one big exception -- it will NOT place anything on the System Disk unless there is no other place to put the files.

It is possible to re-balance the storage manually but one should not do this routinely. Many of us like to have the System Disk clear of data and, once cleared, it should remain that way. The preferred method for doing this is to use the Drive Balancer Utility. But do it once and then let DE handle things.


So let me make sure I got this. So when you say "system disk" you are referring to a portion of the first bay HDD not the whole physical HDD itself. Just a portion of it that holds the main server Os?

So you run the Drive Balance utility once to set they server to keep files off the system disk and then the DE itself will know that's how things should be as more files are added?

And why do you all like the system disk be clear of data?

also to add the utility do i have to do that over the PC or will I be able to add utilities over my Mac say using the remote desktop program to emulate the whs console?

thanks alot,

jim m

ps i'm really sorry if these are stupid questions but i'm learning as i go. i can surf this site and look for topics but i don't know what to look for. as you all chime in it gives me topics to learn about.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:13 am 
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jimim wrote:
So when you say "system disk" you are referring to a portion of the first bay HDD not the whole physical HDD itself. Just a portion of it that holds the main server Os?

YES

jimim wrote:
So you run the Drive Balance utility once to set they server to keep files off the system disk and then the DE itself will know that's how things should be as more files are added?

Yes. (You might want to check out the MS WHS Technical Library at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd347480%28WS.10%29.aspx, specifically under the Technical Briefs at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd309758(WS.10).aspx. These are great references and, frankly, quite worth-while reads if you want to really understand WHS.)

jimim wrote:
And why do you all like the system disk be clear of data?

It saves steps later should you want to replace the system disk. And that, really, is the ONLY value of doing this.

jimim wrote:
To add the utility do i have to do that over the PC or will I be able to add utilities over my Mac say using the remote desktop program to emulate the whs console?

It's not a matter of "adding" the utility, it is a matter of RUNNING it once. Whether you do it through an RDP session or by accessing the desktop vial the Advance Admin Add-In (or other similar methods) is a matter of personal preference.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:44 pm 
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JohnBick wrote:
jimim wrote:
So when you say "system disk" you are referring to a portion of the first bay HDD not the whole physical HDD itself. Just a portion of it that holds the main server Os?

YES

jimim wrote:
So you run the Drive Balance utility once to set they server to keep files off the system disk and then the DE itself will know that's how things should be as more files are added?

Yes. (You might want to check out the MS WHS Technical Library at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd347480%28WS.10%29.aspx, specifically under the Technical Briefs at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd309758(WS.10).aspx. These are great references and, frankly, quite worth-while reads if you want to really understand WHS.)

jimim wrote:
And why do you all like the system disk be clear of data?

It saves steps later should you want to replace the system disk. And that, really, is the ONLY value of doing this.

jimim wrote:
To add the utility do i have to do that over the PC or will I be able to add utilities over my Mac say using the remote desktop program to emulate the whs console?

It's not a matter of "adding" the utility, it is a matter of RUNNING it once. Whether you do it through an RDP session or by accessing the desktop vial the Advance Admin Add-In (or other similar methods) is a matter of personal preference.

---

We all learn by asking questions. The beauty of these boards is that we MAY be able to find our answers with a SEARCH; and if we cannot we can ask! Welcome to the world of MSS/WHS!


J,

thanks for the response. i'm going to check out that link now. this all gives me some "homework" to do now. i have some stuff to search for now. now some of the threads are making more sense to me. i try to do searches but don't know what to search for. i tried for days to find some stuff about the macs but had no luck, hence the thread.

i'm going to go do some reading now!

jim


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:20 pm 
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JohnBick wrote:
jimim wrote:
So when you say "system disk" you are referring to a portion of the first bay HDD not the whole physical HDD itself. Just a portion of it that holds the main server Os?

YES

jimim wrote:
So you run the Drive Balance utility once to set they server to keep files off the system disk and then the DE itself will know that's how things should be as more files are added?

Yes. (You might want to check out the MS WHS Technical Library at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd347480%28WS.10%29.aspx, specifically under the Technical Briefs at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd309758(WS.10).aspx. These are great references and, frankly, quite worth-while reads if you want to really understand WHS.)

jimim wrote:
And why do you all like the system disk be clear of data?

It saves steps later should you want to replace the system disk. And that, really, is the ONLY value of doing this.

jimim wrote:
To add the utility do i have to do that over the PC or will I be able to add utilities over my Mac say using the remote desktop program to emulate the whs console?


It's not a matter of "adding" the utility, it is a matter of RUNNING it once. Whether you do it through an RDP session or by accessing the desktop vial the Advance Admin Add-In (or other similar methods) is a matter of personal preference.

---

We all learn by asking questions. The beauty of these boards is that we MAY be able to find our answers with a SEARCH; and if we cannot we can ask! Welcome to the world of MSS/WHS!


ok got a question just to make sure I got this right.

they talk about the OS have 20 gigs reserved for itself. it talks about reserving as much space as possible for the primary data partition cause the file table is stored there. is that also where the operating system is stored? meaning am i going to have to tell the server when i set it up how much space to reserve for this partition that will not be part of the actual files i store?

meaning will there be 3 partitions: 1 being the OS, 2 being the primary partition for the file table, and 3 being the rest of the room for data?

also when it talked about file duplication and this info going onto the second or hard drive. . .so i have lets say the primary 1.5 tb HDD in. and i add another 1.5 tb HHD. that second HDD will ONLY be for the duplicate files? so if the primary or say a 3rd HDD runs out of room it won't store primary files on that hard drive with duplicate files?

also, duplication is diff than the backup disk in that the duplication is part of the pool where the backup disk is not? i would only use backup disk for making a copy of stuff i want to have off site like my photos.

jim



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:52 pm 
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jimim wrote:
they talk about the OS have 20 gigs reserved for itself. it talks about reserving as much space as possible for the primary data partition cause the file table is stored there. is that also where the operating system is stored? meaning am i going to have to tell the server when i set it up how much space to reserve for this partition that will not be part of the actual files i store?

meaning will there be 3 partitions: 1 being the OS, 2 being the primary partition for the file table, and 3 being the rest of the room for data?

also when it talked about file duplication and this info going onto the second or hard drive. . .so i have lets say the primary 1.5 tb HDD in. and i add another 1.5 tb HHD. that second HDD will ONLY be for the duplicate files? so if the primary or say a 3rd HDD runs out of room it won't store primary files on that hard drive with duplicate files?

also, duplication is diff than the backup disk in that the duplication is part of the pool where the backup disk is not? i would only use backup disk for making a copy of stuff i want to have off site like my photos.

The system drive has TWO partitions, one for the OS (C-Drive, 20GB) and the other for data (D-Drive, remaining space). The WHS guidance to use the largest drive here is generally considered outdated given the size of drives and the predominance of multi-drive systems. You do not need to do anything to set all this up.

The Drive Extender (DE) manages duplication such that the file is on one drive and the duplicate on another. DE determines the drives to use and it is based on using the drive with the MOST available free space for the storage of a new file; you cannot control these placements. (The D-Drive space on the System Drive is NOT used for data storage (original or duplicate) if gthere is sufficient space on other drives.)

The client backup database is a series of files on the D-Drive (not a separate disk). These files are NOT duplicated by WHS but can actually be duplicated using the Backup Database Backup (BDBB) Add-In (using an undocumented feature in WHS, I believe).

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:47 pm 
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JohnBick wrote:
jimim wrote:
they talk about the OS have 20 gigs reserved for itself. it talks about reserving as much space as possible for the primary data partition cause the file table is stored there. is that also where the operating system is stored? meaning am i going to have to tell the server when i set it up how much space to reserve for this partition that will not be part of the actual files i store?

meaning will there be 3 partitions: 1 being the OS, 2 being the primary partition for the file table, and 3 being the rest of the room for data?

also when it talked about file duplication and this info going onto the second or hard drive. . .so i have lets say the primary 1.5 tb HDD in. and i add another 1.5 tb HHD. that second HDD will ONLY be for the duplicate files? so if the primary or say a 3rd HDD runs out of room it won't store primary files on that hard drive with duplicate files?

also, duplication is diff than the backup disk in that the duplication is part of the pool where the backup disk is not? i would only use backup disk for making a copy of stuff i want to have off site like my photos.

The system drive has TWO partitions, one for the OS (C-Drive, 20GB) and the other for data (D-Drive, remaining space). The WHS guidance to use the largest drive here is generally considered outdated given the size of drives and the predominance of multi-drive systems. You do not need to do anything to set all this up.

The Drive Extender (DE) manages duplication such that the file is on one drive and the duplicate on another. DE determines the drives to use and it is based on using the drive with the MOST available free space for the storage of a new file; you cannot control these placements. (The D-Drive space on the System Drive is NOT used for data storage (original or duplicate) if gthere is sufficient space on other drives.)

The client backup database is a series of files on the D-Drive (not a separate disk). These files are NOT duplicated by WHS but can actually be duplicated using the Backup Database Backup (BDBB) Add-In (using an undocumented feature in WHS, I believe).


John,

thanks for the response!

Ok I'm trying to wrap my head around all this.

So if I have 2 drives installed with duplication off: Drive one is the system partition and the rest is for raw data but since there is a second drive all data will go to drive 2 cause it is available with sufficient space?

So if duplication is set to on with the same senerio what happens then? does the data go to drive 2 and the duplicate go to drive 1? or is it the other way around?

Question: so if I keep adding HDD then I pretty much can keep the first drive clean with only the system on it. which i assume is totally unnecessary.

thanks alot for the help,
jim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:27 pm 
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jimim wrote:
So if I have 2 drives installed with duplication off: Drive one is the system partition and the rest is for raw data but since there is a second drive all data will go to drive 2 cause it is available with sufficient space?

That is correct.

jimim wrote:
So if duplication is set to on with the same senerio what happens then? does the data go to drive 2 and the duplicate go to drive 1? or is it the other way around?

I believe it is the way you described -- but it really does not matter at all either way as they are on separate disks. THAT is ALL you really care about.

jimim wrote:
Question: so if I keep adding HDD then I pretty much can keep the first drive clean with only the system on it. which i assume is totally unnecessary.

That is correct. And that is why many of us recommend a THREE-Drive (or more) system. The data and duplicates go on two drives and if they fill up you have the extra space on the System Drive to use while you wait for another disk to ship!

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jimim wrote:

I really do need to get a cheap ol windows computer in our house. I have a nuvo grand concerto dist. audio system in our house and whenever i want to add something new to it or update the FW or make any changed to my scenes for my lights throughout my home I got to call Bob and ask him for their field computer. i know he doesn't mind but it's just a pain. so. . . if I was to get a laptop that is windows based what would you recommend? would a netbook from eeepc be enough or should i just get a plain ol' HP and at least have a drive in it for disks. with the netbook I wouldn't have a drive.

oh last thing. . . . security. i'm used to my mac's. no virus programs needed and such. do i have to do anything diff with adding the whs? just make sure my firewall is up?

again thanks alot! :mss: great place to learn btw! alot is wayyy over my head but that's ok makes me try harder!

jim m.


Netbooks are great but you will need to get an external USB CD/DVD Drive if you want to use it to perform a Server Recovery. Just make sure you get one where you can access the RAM and Hard Drive. Some netbooks require you to completely dissassemble the unit just to get at the RAM and Hard Drive. The EEEPC units come with Recovery Discs atleast the one I have did and a friend of my bought one recently that also came with the Recovery Disc. Its a real plus to have recovery discs on hand.

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Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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