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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:12 am 
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Hi all,

I have been lurking around on the forums here for a while and you guys have a great resource of information.
I am getting closer to taking on a WHS project to replace a qnap nas running raid 5 but have a few questions about failed disks/systems are handled.

1. How does WHSv1 handle a failed disk or a system failure? What does the recovery processes involve in either scenario?
2. How does Vail handle a failed disk or a system failure? What does recovery processes involve in either scenario? I have seen it mentioned that vail handles disks differently then the folder duplication used in WHS1 but couldn't dig up any specifics.
3. How does the folder duplication of WHSv1 and whatever vail uses stack up to something like a traditional raid 5 setup.
4. Specific to the HP MSS; What indicators are there to a disk failure? Is there an alarm? Email notifications? Pretty sure there’s LED's on the box itself but that’s something not always plainly visible.


Now on to the more fun stuff!

I have been bouncing back and forth between building my own or going with an HP MSS Ex495.

Here is my list of needs:

FTP server
General storage over SMB/CIFS
Syslog server
Transcoding and streaming (Up to 1080p MKV) to a PS3
Torrent downloads
Backups for Mac + PC
Low power/heat/noise and small form factor - I live in an apartment so a small footprint is pretty important.
Does WHS support MS IAS (Radius) server? Would be nice to have wireless / firewall / file access all authenticate in a single location but it’s not a make or break deal.
Would be used as an RDP terminal periodically but rarely anything more taxing then typical office applications.

If I go with building my own I was looking at either of the following as a chassis.

Lian-li PC-V354 (matx)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112300
Lian-li PC-Q08 (itx)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811112265

I took a look at the Fractal Design Array NAS box and do like it size but from reviews I can tell it would pretty much be a nightmare to replace a failed disk.

Anyone have either of those cases and an HP MSS? I can read measurements all day but it’s no replacement seeing them side to side.
Any community recommendations?

Is there any reason to want to go with a traditional raid 5 setup? Only concerns, mentioned above, are recovering from a disk/system failure since I'm not 100% sure how WHSv1 and Vail work.

I have some test bed parts around that would be used in a home-built box.
Intel i3 530
4gb ram
Gigabyte matx motherboard (don't mind replacing this with a ITX board for smaller enclosures)
430 watt antec atx psu (don't mind replacing this with a SFX PSU for smaller enclosures)
4x 3.5" 2TB Samsung F3 green drives I would move over from the NAS to the new box when its built (very unlikely to expand beyond those 4 drives)
320gb 2.5" drive I could use as a system drive and leave the 4x 3.5" drives as a storage pool

I like the idea of a hot swap cage but it’s not really important; as long as the case isn't a nightmare to work with.


Any suggestions and advice are very welcome :)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:27 am 
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I have played around with DIY machines and the various MSS configurations and have formed my own conclusions.
1st - If I were to build a DIY machine, I would not work with retail parts and would only use server parts for the main components. I find them to be much more reliable and tolerent to different environments although a little harder to work with(ie. quieting down a real server).
2nd - I have worked with the Lian cube cases with ITX/mini ATX boards and they are great cases and for normal application work fine but with a server, I was not happy with the air flow through the drives and they ran a little warmer than small form factors like the MSS.
3rd - I have worked with cases that have internal drives and cases with hot swap drives and have found that I would not use internal drives for this application and will stick with hot swap drives that are easily accessable in trays. Sounds like a small thing but with the amount of activity(with hard drive failures, upgrading drives, etc) ,working with internal drives get old fast.
4th - If the need for a small form factor server is overwhelming, I would recommend the MSS because I haven't found a more reliable or flexible base yet. It takes well to upgrading if you need more power, etc.

Now all this should be taken with a grain of salt because I run 2 MSS units(CPU and memory both upgraded) and 2 Supermicro Quad core Storage rackmounts with all drives in trays(except system drive), where I do all downloading, transcoding, etc. My prime production machines are the Supermicro units and they can go very easily for WHS V1 to Vail.

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HP EX470, 4 GIG, 4200+ EE SFF, WHS V1, Production
HP EX485, 4 GIG, E5800, WHS 2011, Stablebit Drive Pool, Transfer Server, Backup Server
HP EX490, 4 GIG, Q9400S, WHS 2011, Stablebit Drive Pool, Mediaserver
HP EX485, 4 GIG, Q8200S, WHS 2011, ITUNES Server


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Realistically I don't think I need any more processing power then what is already offered by the EX495 (maybe a memory upgrade) but the kid in me is just trying to find a reason to use the parts I already got and go for the DIY.

The most intensive thing would be transcoding mkv files at 1080p to stream to a PS3. I want to say the 2.5ghz E5200 should be enough but I don't know for sure.

Just trying to feel out my options and see whats involved and what I would need for a DIY server.

With the MSS; if the unit itself dies would all I need to do is just drop the disks into a new one? What would the recovery involve for something like that happening?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:41 pm 
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@ Gemini177

The HP recovery software is designed around the hardware in the server it was written for and a DIY Build would not properly allow for a recovery to take place with the HP Discs. You would need to purchase a new copy of WHS aka WHS-OEM and then you could perform a recovery using the original drives in your server. This has been done when others have migrated their HP MSS to a DIY Build.

@ erail

I believe your Supermicro Servers have duel processors very much like my Proliant. Recently Chasrobin mentioned that Vail is limited to run on single processor units and in the same message thread Alex pointed out that those with duel processor servers would need to run Aurora. Anyway I do not desire to quote anyone incorrectly so here is the link to what I am mentioning.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=9128

I will say this much after seeing the performance of my ProLiant and the beating that others put it through I would have to agree wih you one the components of a DIY build. But for those who only randomly use there servers here or there then I think the retail components are fine. My server gets used 24-7 and its accessed by family, friends and co-workers for various reasons but the #1 reason is to stream media content and the #2 is for the exchange and sharing of files that are often too large to be sent via email.

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Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Comp1962 wrote:
@erail

I believe your Supermicro Servers have duel processors very much like my Proliant. Recently Chasrobin mentioned that Vail is limited to run on single processor units and in the same message thread Alex pointed out that those with duel processor servers would need to run Aurora. Anyway I do not desire to quote anyone incorrectly so here is the link to what I am mentioning.


Yes I did run one dual processor AMD MB but now, I run quad core intel Supermicro MBs, I tested Vail and ran WHS V1 with dual AMD 280's on Supermicro MB but once I knew Vail had a problem with dual processors, I moved on.
Super WHS I has always been Q6600 Quad and has run flawlessly for almost 2 years with now 16 hot swap drives(8 3.5 and 8 2.5). It runs fine in heat of summer and the cold of winter and it sometimes gets up to 90F and lows of 45F in a basic storage room with no air and very little heat.

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HP EX470, 4 GIG, 4200+ EE SFF, WHS V1, Production
HP EX485, 4 GIG, E5800, WHS 2011, Stablebit Drive Pool, Transfer Server, Backup Server
HP EX490, 4 GIG, Q9400S, WHS 2011, Stablebit Drive Pool, Mediaserver
HP EX485, 4 GIG, Q8200S, WHS 2011, ITUNES Server


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:40 pm 
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I have been contemplating if I should build a new server and just let the ProLiant handle what its been doing extremely well since I put it online earlier this year. The ProLiant I have is actually a 1U server so it has these fans that when they kick in everyone knows about it but if I keep the Ambiant temp at or below 78 F it runs very comfortable. But before I actually build a new server I have to make a 30 bay drive enclosure which got stuck in my head when I first saw the Backblade Enclosures. While I will use the same boards which are CFI-B53PM's, and SNT Trays I will be setting it up in a more conventional layout and I also intend on using the LED's Anyway in a couple weeks I will order another board and a couple more trays then I will fabricate the first frame and when done and am happy with it will order the remaining components and finish off the enclosure which I will place under the ProLiant making both easy to service. Now I am not certain I will need the 32 drive capacity but a couple years ago I thought the 4 drive capactity in the EX470 was all I would need and I am now upto 13 drives so the insanity continues.

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Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:04 pm 
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any progress AKA pics of your 32 bay enclosure yet.

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EX490 3.0Ghz E6600 3X WD20EARS 1T ST7200.11 ----Esata attached TR5M 2X 2T Samsung F4 2X 2T Baracuda LP 1X 2T WD20EARS
DIY build HAF 912 case Asus M4A88-TD EVO MB 4 gig Ram Phenom II X4 3.2Ghz B55 VelociRaptor 600 3X WD20EARS


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Not yet but as soon as I start building the enclosure I will start a new message thread to show my progress. I am way over due to get this started. I have to order some additional parts and then start building the frame structure to hold the backplane boards and rails to support the drive trays. I am also looking to keep the foot print identical to my Proliant so everything sits nicely in one area.

Thanks for asking tho...

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Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm 
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I'm also trying to build a home server... as for case, I've settled on supermicro cse-743tq 4U rack/tower case. I'll be reusing my old tower parts (which doubles sorta like a server at the moment) that has q6600 cpu and supermicro c2sea mboard. I still haven't pulled the trigger on the case yet. Been thinking about it for about 2 weeks now. LOL


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