How are people integrating an extra layer of redundancy using RAID in WHS?

Can you have each set of 5 drives be a RAID-5 array and then 15 disks becomes 3 RAID arrays and then WHS duplicates data using those 3 arrays? That's what I'm thinking of. Maybe starting with 2 RAID-5 arrays at first of 5 drives each. I'd imagine with the right controller all this would be transparent to the WHS system that sees each array as a drive. For system drive 2 64GB SSDs in RAID 1 sounds like a plan. But will the new WHS install on a 64GB drive? Now that it does not use the system drive for a landing space I cannot see a good reason why it needs a minimum space on the system drive. If anything 2 X25-E 32GB in Raid 1 sounds hot. I'll let the data stay on other drives. I think that's a better overall design. Even the next MSS should use an SSD for system drive maybe not as fancy as the Intel drive but something decent enough.

I don't know of people using RAID with WHS except in testing scenarios, and personally don't see a compelling reason to do it. I will caution that if you do this, make sure to use a good hardware RAID controller and not software RAID.

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Alex Kuretz
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If you want to use Raid 5 do so but don't add it to the data pool just share it out directly. Expanding an array in the pool will cause issues. Finally, a drive is allowed to be 2TB max when added to the pool, do you really want to limit your Raid 5 array to 2TB?

I have actually seen a DIY system that used a RAID-1 (Mirror) array for the System Drive (2x320GB). A very nice insurance against a failure of the System Drive. As Alex suggests above, this was a HARDWARE RAID. (No, I do not recall the implementation details; too long ago.)

The same individual initially planned to use RAID-5 for the other drives to be added to the storage pool but realized that an array of 5x1.5TB would be problematic (again, see above) as well as not cost-effective when compared to just using WHS DE duplication. (It actually worked fine initially in a 5x500GB array that was replaced after a month of use.) He was additionally concerned that he would force himself into a dependency on the RAID-5 controller should he later wish to migrate to new hardware and, hopefully, move the disks intact. I pointed out that he was also introducing another layer of abstraction (RAID hardware) along with the potential for additional failures that may be encountered.

Last I heard the System Drive is still 2x320GB RAID-1 and the remaining drives (8) are all individual 1.5TB units. I suspect he has added additional drives by now though! If I ever do a DIY WHS it will be similarly configured. (And I do expect to build such a test system soon, but I do NOT plan to replace my MSS!)

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....JBick

EX475, 2 GB, LE-1640
PC1: Vista-->W7 Ultimate/32, (D-Drive RAID-5 Array)
PC2: Lenovo Laptop, Win XP Home SP3
2xLinksys WRT54G v1.1 and 2xNetGear GS105 Gbit switch

I'm running a Raid 1 on my system drive. Just that little extra peace of mind.

Jeff, would you mind sharing a few more details on you system drive setup? I might move a little quicker to a DIY solution than I had planned if I could address my concerns over a system drive failure. I think I have good backup options addressed for all failures pretty well now except for that. I don’t want to have to worry about reinstalling the utilities, add-ins and other programs (and the configuration of same) that I have running on the server sys drive if that drive fails. I am guessing your setup would protect me from this kind of failure? Could you tell us a little about your setup, controller card, matched sys disk drive, etc.?
George

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I have the onboard Intel Matrix Raid on my motherboard. I actually enabled the Raid mode after the fact by moving my system drive to a second controller, making it boot from there and enabling Intel Raid mode in the bios in one shot. I booted into Safe mode and installed the drivers. Move the system drive back to the intel controller put a second drive on the controller and told it to do a Raid 1 with the current system drive as the source preserving the data.

Thanks for your detailed answer, Jeff. I appreciate it. Two follow-up questions; so is your solution a hardware or a software RAID solution? Do you need to make sure the two dirves you are using for RAID 1 are a matched pair of dirves, maybe even to the point that the s/n on the two drives you use of the system drive are sequential numbers?

Thanks. That will be all of my questions
George

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Be aware, not everything that claims to be hardware RAID is really hardware RAID, and WHS can have issues running on Software RAID.

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Alex Kuretz
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Intel Matrix ICH10 is actually classes a firmware raid. It's part of the southbridge on your motherboard. The difference between it and a dedicated hardware raid solution is the intel matrix solution will use a small amount of CPU power to do the disk management work, where a dedicated card will actually have it's own processor doing the work.

It's not a software raid solution and it no way tied to the OS, nor is the OS involved in disk management when it comes to the array(s).

George:

To answer your second question it's always safer and smart to match your drives by model number. You don't need to go so crazy as trying to find sequential drives by serial number.

If I ever did it I would go whole hog and get: http://www.areca.us/products/pcietosas1680series.htm

That one controller could handle my theoretical RAID5 arrays and system RAID1 array.

However I didn't know about the 2TB limit for drives. Why? Is it a 32-bit thing? What would happen when 3TB drives arrive on the market?


If I'm doing system drive as RAID1 only I would consider the Intel solution from what I read above.

WHS only support MBR not GPT. The OS under WHS is fine with larger GPT volume, but the drive extender only does MBR. MBR has a 2TB maximum.

Thanks everyone for your input. I just recently began to seriously consider a DIY WHS. As others have noticed, there are some things I would like to do with my WHS that would be possible/easier to accomplish with a DIY. I really like my MSS and it will probably meet my needs for several more months. Anyway, now that it is running so well with my eSATA drive enclosure tower attached and it can easily grow as my media files grow with the addition of more/larger drives, I don't want to touch it for a while

However, I get excited about what neat new things I could do with a DIY.

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Aristotle - Greek critic, philosopher, physicist, & zoologist (384 BC - 322 BC)

Howdy, everyone. I'm a new member to the board. I built my custom server around the first of April. Below is my parts list (everything from newegg). The total was a little over $800.

1 G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231122
$39.99

1 LITE-ON 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS322-08 - Retail
Item #: N82E16827106286
$25.49

1 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148262
$54.99

4 HITACHI 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822145233
$351.96
($87.99 ea)

1 Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E5200 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819116072
$69.99

1 CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ... - Retail
Item #: N82E16817139005
$89.99

1 GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813128359
$114.99

1 COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811119137
$79.99

I have pictures of my setup on my blog site. The link to the article is here: http://donovanadkisson.com/2009/04/02/m ... ge-server/

I plan to add additional storage in the future. I come from a RAID 5 world (I run an ISP/Data Center) so I was a bit concerned about the way WHS handled redundancy. So far I've been happy with the setup. My home network is a mixture of Macs (iMac, Macbook Pro) and Windows machines (XP/Vista/7 RC) plus some linux servers.

Also, this board is great and there is a wealth of information here! I found it via Google when I was searching for Time Machine and WHS configurations.

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