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EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4600		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Ed_R [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
The first thing I had to do from my Mac to setup Time Machine on the MSS was to create the Backup Disk Size. When I did this I got the error "Mac share folder has been deleted", because that share did not exist on the MSS. It is because I have installed WHS several times over the past year that I knew to go into console and add the share to the server. But looking at the HP MSS web page I think their target audience is broader than we enthusiasts who can interpret that error message and go into the console to fix it. If HP makes folders for Converted Videos, Music, Photos, etc. I would think they would also make a folder for Mac when they installed their MSS software over the WHS software.

I agree with the statement "it is not a HP proprietary and they can't do anything with it even if they wanted" and that it is a contiguous space issue. If this is the case then I think HP's instructions should read:

If you intend to use Time Machine:
1. Setup the server from a Windows computer.
2. Setup a Mac computer and use Console to make a share named Mac.
3. From the HP icon select "Open Preferences"
4. Click on Backup and make the "Backup Disk Size"
5. Now continue with the rest of you installation.

I have over a year in on WHS but only 3 days with MSS so maybe I'm missing something. HP documentation EX495Manual.pdf does not indicate that Time Machine must be setup first. What if you buy a Mac after you have already used your MSS? This is just my experience over the last few days, so I don't know what will work for others.

On page 59 of the EX495Manual.pdf they give instructions for PC Backup and Restore. I followed those instructions and did a manual backup of the XP computer I was using. Then on page 60 Mac Time Machine Backup is explained. But by this time I could not create the backup disk size. What happened to my drives after I did the XP backup? I had the 1.5 tb that came with the server and two clean 1 tb drives in the drive bays. I wouldn't think anything had been written on those drives.

Yesterday I spoke to an HP tech who was very knowledgeable and friendly. He checked settings all over the place and could find nothing wrong. He had me e-mail him some additional log files but could see nothing wrong with them. He acknowledged the work around of installing Time Machine first, but concluded with sending my log files to "higher ups to address the said bug" hoping they will fix it.

I have gone into great detail with the steps I used hoping this experience will help other new EX49x users who think the problem is fixed. I wonder if others have done a PC backup and could then successfully did a Time Machine backup.

One last thought. The first time I crated the Mac share I left the check mark in the box to use file duplication. After I did a factory rest I made the Mac share and unchecked file duplication. I wonder if that had any effect.

Good luck to all
Author:  bruder [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
@Ed_R
I never used PC with MSS, only to setup it (XP over Parallels), that is probably why I never experienced "contiguous space" issue. I think that all legs grow from MS Disk Extender + MS Disk Balancer + "folder duplication". As you wrote you made PC backup (say 100 GB) which lead to putting data here and there (by Disk Balancer) and duplicated (by "folder duplication") so now 200GB uniformly spread over your HDD. Now the question is "how big is the probability to find empty 200GB piece of space for Mac backup image?".
Also pay attention that you should never (never!) use folder duplication for Mac share, because every backup image is one huge file, so requesting 500GB space for Mac backup you would need 1TB (or even bit more) free space on server (and we keep in mind that Disk Extender does not allow one file to cross on HDD boundary).
Such story.
Author:  aakar [ Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
May have found a fix:

Setup your Mac to do a Time Machine backup using the old method:
You need to create a 'Time Machine' share folder on your MediaSmart server. Then follow the steps outlined here: http://blog.compugeeksoftware.com/blog/ ... ps-to-whs/
Do everything up until "Creating a working sparsebundle file"

When the initial backup is running Time Machine will say it's 'Preparing' you can wait about a minute and then hit 'X'. Following this load up your HP MSS Preference window on your Mac and attempt to create a Backup Disk Size using the default value.

That's all that I had to do this afternoon to get this working.
Author:  MoFoQ [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
that's not really a "fix" but a hack/workaround.

anyways, I get the same thing with a EX470 with four 1TB drives (~4TB).
I have almost 2TB free and even if I set the backup size to 1GB (I did it for sh*ts and giggles), it would fail at 8%.
Even after repeated boot-time defrags, it will still complain about "space".

In a side note, the MSS that I grabbed off the HP site doesn't give me the option to create/resize/etc. (that button/pulldown doesn't exist).

update: I grabbed MSS beta that's in the forums here and installed that (after uninstalling the official version) and it worked on the first try.
WTF....damn HP for not releasing working software.
Author:  Koopy [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
Hi folks,

I'm not overly technical, but was having the same issues and don't want to go anywhere near a "hack" solution. I called HP and I'm unsure if the tech was correct or not, but he said the Mac Back-Up is limited to the size of the system drive that initially came with the Media Smart Server. So, in the case of the 470 series, it was 500GB. He said you could start fresh with a new and larger capacity system drive, but would have to disconnect all computers and use the restore disc. Create your Mac backup first then bring your other computers and data back on board. I have 4TBs of data (photography) that I'm not willing to risk this on, so I'm simply buying a Western Digital 1TB external drive for Mac and connecting directly to the computer. I appreciate HP trying to incorporate Mac, but for me this is a non-starter.
Author:  JohnBick [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
Koopy wrote:
Hi folks,

I'm not overly technical, but was having the same issues and don't want to go anywhere near a "hack" solution. I called HP and I'm unsure if the tech was correct or not, but he said the Mac Back-Up is limited to the size of the system drive that initially came with the Media Smart Server. So, in the case of the 470 series, it was 500GB. He said you could start fresh with a new and larger capacity system drive, but would have to disconnect all computers and use the restore disc. Create your Mac backup first then bring your other computers and data back on board. I have 4TBs of data (photography) that I'm not willing to risk this on, so I'm simply buying a Western Digital 1TB external drive for Mac and connecting directly to the computer. I appreciate HP trying to incorporate Mac, but for me this is a non-starter.

There are numerous examples around here that prove that advice to be incorrect. The key seems to be having CONTIGUOUS space. Use SEARCH and you will find plenty of information on how to make this work -- without any "hacks". (I do not bookmark these as I do not own a Mac! Sorry!)
Author:  gecko6375 [ Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
I have created/deleted/re-setup my Time Machine setup many times. I have gone so far as to do a full blown factory restore and started from scratch. What I can tell you is that John is correct-
Quote:
The key seems to be having CONTIGUOUS space. Use SEARCH and you will find plenty of information on how to make this work


My suggestion is to remove a drive and let the system rebalance your storage. Then add the new drive and immediately setup the Time Machine functionality. Keep the size of the backup smaller than that of the drive you just added. It does not have to be a much smaller. Just small enough that it will fit entirely on that drive. This seems to work the best and has worked for me numerous times. I am hoping, fingers crossed, that the 3.0 software may help with this but I am not 100% sure. If you dig around in this forum you will find several step by step accounts to help you.

Hope that helps.
Author:  hakr [ Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
So this is still an unresolved issue?
I was going to give 3.0 a try...I use superduper now but if I have to jump through hoops to get 3.0 to work with time machine, in re space allocation on hard drives...

Too much trouble.
Author:  kaotik78 [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
3.0 isn't any better it seems. I rushed to buy a copy and I still can't get this thing to behave with my mac.
Author:  kaotik78 [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
I tried what was suggested above, remove a drive, then re-insert the drive, and setup timemachine. Again a 1tb drive trying to allocate 82gb and it still would not work. Frankly I think HP should pull the mac compatibility listing on this product, simply because it doesn't work. I've tried various attempts on this today, wasted a good part of my saturday, 30 dollars for the 3.0 upgrade, and still no solution. I'm trying not to get down and negative on this but it's just more of the same, we the consumers are beta testers for half arsed software, very typical on the windows platform. So I have 4tb of space, usable only for my wife's computer, hoooray for her, but I have no solution for my mac.

3.0 upgrade needs some SERIOUS help for mac compatibility.
Author:  yakuza [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
You installed the new Mac client software from the server Software share after updating to 3.0?
Author:  TurtleDriver [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
FWIW, Time Machine is working well on my new EX495. I added three 1.5 TB drives to the server and created a 1 TB Time Machine on one of the 1.5 TB drives (two are for additional shared space and one for back up). I was surprised that it has to be created on the shared drive and not on a backup drive, but after getting over that hurdle all has been working fine. It also took a while to figure out I had to create the "Mac" folder on the shared drive and assign its permissions, that the software would not create it for me. Make sure you don't duplicate it!
Author:  kaotik78 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
Ah, Yakuza excellent point. I did NOT do that, instead I used the CD-ROM that was provided in the 3.0 upgrade I ordered from HP's site.

I uninstalled what I had previously installed, and then re-installed via //myserver/software/mac

Unfortunately it came up with the same exact issue, only this time I clicked on repair, it still failed.

I already have the "Mac" folder, I disabled folder duplication. What am I missing?
Author:  kaotik78 [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
Ok, this is odd. I can't make a backup disk with the size of 82gb, but I resized it to 50 and it seems to be working?

We'll see if it actually finishes. I have a 1tb drive in my imac, but I'm only using 62. 78gb out of 999.86gb.
Author:  yakuza [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EX470 and Time Machine: not enough server space?!?!?!?
The Disk management Add-In is useful for showing how your drives are utilized. Also, I don't see you telling us what exactly the error is that you're getting, I just see you saying it doesn't work. Details will help us help you.
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