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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:30 am 
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Thanks for the help thus far! I agree, it's time to move over to the MediaBrowser forum for help - will post here if/when I find a solution.

My complaints about strictly Media Center is the lack of sorting movies by genre and the ability to see all the movie details on the extender (I'm hoping for a solution that has an extender at all TV's vs. a full HTPC, but that just may not happen).

I like MyMovies a lot. The available metadata is awesome. The extra abilities to automatically download pictures of actors and then cross reference my movie collection for other movies the actor is in is fantastic. And, then the actor bio is just fun. On the down side, the cover art, as viewed from the extender, is small and fuzzy - but hey, it works!

With MediaBrowser, the UI is awesome with all the different options available and size of the cover art (really helps WAF). The sorting by genre and alpha is about all I really care about. It does not have automatic actor pictures or bios, which are cool, but not a big deal for me. So bottom line is that MediaBrowser has the features most important to me in a UI with a wow factor.

If I have to go back to MyMovies (which I still have), I'll only be disappointed because I know how close MediaBrowser came (but I haven't given up trying yet!).

Of course, streaming blue-ray is going to be important pretty soon as well.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:53 pm 
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scottc wrote:
(I'm hoping for a solution that has an extender at all TV's vs. a full HTPC, but that just may not happen).


The one option away from a Windows Media Center solution is SageTV. Their HD200 extender works well and is a small form factor. The software has a WHS add in and pretty much handles most options (they just added the option to play ripped Blu Ray with the folder structure in tact, so no recoding). I had the HD100 that I ended up selling to finance my last HTPC build. I am setting up my mom on the HD200 in a week or two, so I will have a chance to tinker around with that.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:18 am 
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Uh oh....another MCS for me to test out:

http://elisa.fluendo.com/

I don't know if I have the mental strength to take another program for a run. So of course that means I will have to test it out :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:30 am 
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scottc wrote:
(I'm hoping for a solution that has an extender at all TV's vs. a full HTPC, but that just may not happen).



Also, there is hope down the road that if you want more flexability then an extender you can build a small form factor HTPC. The new Ion platform from Nvidia seems very promising:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIAs ... Platform-/

What I like about HTPCs (and the reason why I started this thread) is the ability to choose what interface I want to use and not be locked in to the interface of the extender. HTPCs do have drawkbacks, mainly due to size and cost, so if I can build an HTPC that is close in size and comparable costwise to many extenders (plus run on Windows 7 which is supposed to be more efficient then Vista), then this could be a real winner.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:00 am 
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dbone1026 wrote:
scottc wrote:
(I'm hoping for a solution that has an extender at all TV's vs. a full HTPC, but that just may not happen).



Also, there is hope down the road that if you want more flexability then an extender you can build a small form factor HTPC. The new Ion platform from Nvidia seems very promising:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIAs ... Platform-/

What I like about HTPCs (and the reason why I started this thread) is the ability to choose what interface I want to use and not be locked in to the interface of the extender. HTPCs do have drawkbacks, mainly due to size and cost, so if I can build an HTPC that is close in size and comparable costwise to many extenders (plus run on Windows 7 which is supposed to be more efficient then Vista), then this could be a real winner.



Thanks for sharing. This does look very promising. If they can get this down to the size shown, use such technology advances such a solid state drive to keep noise and heat down, and produce it at a "netbook" price point ($300 range), I bet that thing would sell like hotcakes.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:41 am 
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Funny thing is that this thread had all but sold me on the Sage until you came out with your final summary. I've also been considering the NetGear EVA9150 (http://www.netgear.com/Products/Enterta ... A9150.aspx).

I'll take a look at the link you posted as well for a small HTPC. I'm really hoping to not go the build my own road. I know it is the most flexible option, but the WAF is big and is not having to fiddle with stuff to make it work.

We are on the edge here and it is a quickly evolving environment which makes me think to make a decision on something that gives me my highest priority items and then upgrade in a year or two as the technology evolves. And, I am really hoping to make Media Center that solution since I already have one in the Xbox which means one less box to buy.

Not to get too off topic, but I wonder why there isn't more discussion about support of Joost (Hulu, Joost, NetFlix, personal media all in one easy to use/setup UI would be awesome :D

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:08 pm 
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scottc wrote:
Funny thing is that this thread had all but sold me on the Sage until you came out with your final summary. I've also been considering the NetGear EVA9150 (http://www.netgear.com/Products/Enterta ... A9150.aspx).

I'll take a look at the link you posted as well for a small HTPC. I'm really hoping to not go the build my own road. I know it is the most flexible option, but the WAF is big and is not having to fiddle with stuff to make it work.

We are on the edge here and it is a quickly evolving environment which makes me think to make a decision on something that gives me my highest priority items and then upgrade in a year or two as the technology evolves. And, I am really hoping to make Media Center that solution since I already have one in the Xbox which means one less box to buy.

Not to get too off topic, but I wonder why there isn't more discussion about support of Joost (Hulu, Joost, NetFlix, personal media all in one easy to use/setup UI would be awesome :D


Haha, sorry if I changed your mind. I will say that if you are going the extender route I think SageTV has the best integration of its software with its extender. There are still too many things that you can do in VMC on a desktop that you cannot do on an extender, which is where I think the VMC/extender setup fails. The Ion platform seems very interesting, but I would give it a year to mature and prove it can handle the demands of an extender (playing hd content, etc..). I am actually going to order the SageTV HD200 for my mom (she lives in our basement, so I can wire her in to my network). This will be the ultimate test, if I can get her using the HD200 without calling me every 2 minutes, we have a huge winner. If not you will most likely find the HD200 smashed to pieces :mrgreen:

On the online content front I think there is still some confusion about exactly where this is going. For instance, take Hulu. There is a lot of talk about this product, and developers have been working night and day to integrate this into extenders/HTPCs. However, now Hulu is cracking down on every 3rd party app. There is a desire to integrate Hulu (just look at SageTV, who before the crackdown had been in talks with Hulu to integrate their service into the extender/software), but with the restrictions now this can only be viewed as a big step backwards. If you take a look at Secondrun.tv, this app looks fantastic, but for how much longer? It is an excellent point you bring up, but I think we are still in the minority as far as people wanting easy access to internet content on their tv. Are the cable/satellite providers going to try and control this to keep people from leaving their service en masse? I think the tide is changing, but still a little early. I should mention that a lot of apps have built in support for Netflix, and Amazon appears to be right behind as well. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:24 pm 
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scottc wrote:
Funny thing is that this thread had all but sold me on the Sage until you came out with your final summary. I've also been considering the NetGear EVA9150 (http://www.netgear.com/Products/Enterta ... A9150.aspx).

I'll take a look at the link you posted as well for a small HTPC. I'm really hoping to not go the build my own road. I know it is the most flexible option, but the WAF is big and is not having to fiddle with stuff to make it work.

We are on the edge here and it is a quickly evolving environment which makes me think to make a decision on something that gives me my highest priority items and then upgrade in a year or two as the technology evolves. And, I am really hoping to make Media Center that solution since I already have one in the Xbox which means one less box to buy.

Not to get too off topic, but I wonder why there isn't more discussion about support of Joost (Hulu, Joost, NetFlix, personal media all in one easy to use/setup UI would be awesome :D



Here's a good thread/discussion of the pros (and the cons) of Sage versus Vista Media Center or Windows 7 Media Center. It may be helfpul for sorting out which direction you want to go.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40221

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Quote:
I am actually going to order the SageTV HD200 for my mom (she lives in our basement, so I can wire her in to my network). This will be the ultimate test, if I can get her using the HD200 without calling me every 2 minutes, we have a huge winner. If not you will most likely find the HD200 smashed to pieces


I'll be interested in how this goes - keep us posted.
Quote:
Here's a good thread/discussion of the pros (and the cons) of Sage versus Vista Media Center or Windows 7 Media Center. It may be helfpul for sorting out which direction you want to go.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40221


Thanks! I'll take a look a bit later today. That NVIDIA ION looks pretty good if going the Media Center route.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Thanks! I'll take a look a bit later today. That NVIDIA ION looks pretty good if going the Media Center route.


Agreed, but I think we're quite some time from that becoming something that is available and working properly. My guess is 12 to 18 months depending on how the economy does to spur R&D. And, HTPC size and availability aside, there are some things that the Sage HD200 will be able to do that a HTPC (no matter what size) running WMC will not be able to do.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:22 pm 
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I would expect to see some development in the Ion type platform pretty soon since it can be used in HTPCs, but also netbooks and these cheaper/smaller desktop pcs (like Eee, Asus, etc..). It seems this is the direction of the manufacturers, take a look at the dell studio hybrid (another member of this forum just got to use as an HTPC, so I look forward to hearing his experience)

Honestly, each program/software is going to have its pros/cons, unfortunately I have still not found the perfect software. The main reason why I chose VMC is because as I mentioned before, it worked out of the box. For instance, for SageTV if I wanted the Movie Info Screen, fanart, etc... I had to install several different items and go through various steps. To get the similar effect with VMC using MediaBrowser it is a quick 2 second install of the MediaBrowser app and that is it. After messing around with all the different programs and the different steps to do this or that I just came to appreciate the simplicity of VMC. Also, with SageTV, XBMC, MediaPortal, etc... the software is constantly being upgraded and beta versions made available. This requires keeping an eye on when new updates/beta releases come out, doing another install, possiblly debugging, etc... Once again though, this can be a positive as you are constantly getting updates where VMC could potentially become stagnant. However, after going through different programs, trying to figure out what build to install, some builds caused more problems, etc...VMC was a breathe of fresh air. I do like to tinker around and try the latest and greatest, which is what I use my desktop PC for. Since my HTPCs though are supposed to be stable, user friendly, low maintenance, and my wife could use with minimal effort, VMC came out in front and just made the most sense. I am not saying it is the best program out there, but for the specific purpose of my HTPCs it was.

Now that being said, if I was looking for a Server/Extender setup I would probably lean towards SageTV. I have never used a VMC extender so I can't really go too much into detail, but my issues with using a VMC extender are two things - 1) there is no server add in, so I am forced to keep my desktop pc on to use the VMC interface (at least the Xbox360, don't know about the others). This defeats the purpose of what I am trying to accomplish with my MSS and really makes no sense as to why MS did not integrate Media Center into WHS. 2) not all add ins for VMC work on the extender version. For instance, I have read that the secondrun.tv plugin for VMC does not currently work on the extenders. For this scenario SageTV with the HD200 is really a perfect fit. I can keep my desktop pc off since they have a WHS install and any of the updates/plugins I add to the SageTV software will flow through to the HD200 extender.

So really in my mind you need to list out exactly what you want to get out of whatever product you choose, figure out the pros and cons of HTPCs vs extenders (this will be different for everyone), and then choose what product covers the most important items. Right now the VMC/HTPC solution just works for my situation, but there is no reason to think that this may not change down the road. Once my son gets old enough it may make sense to have an extender like the HD200 set up for him vs a full fledged HTPC. It is very exciting times and hopefully more great products will continue to come out to make the decision even harder :D

I will admit though, if the Ion platform can handle all my media content (including 1080p content) in the small form factor/cheap and still allows me to choose what software/interface I want to use, bring it on!!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:11 pm 
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If PVR (watching TV) and codec support are one of your top issues, SageTV wins. I noticed you didn't give any attention to watching TV, so I thought I'd throw that in since I use mine mostly for that. I've been using MCE2005 for the past 2 years and recently moved over to Sage.
The only thing that keeps me from running it on WHS is you can't install a tuner in the MSS so I'd have to go with an HDHomerun.
It's almost impossible to get straight from the cable box, digital cable HDTV through Vista. This isn't an issue with Sage.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:27 am 
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MitchSchaft wrote:
If PVR (watching TV) and codec support are one of your top issues, SageTV wins. I noticed you didn't give any attention to watching TV, so I thought I'd throw that in since I use mine mostly for that. I've been using MCE2005 for the past 2 years and recently moved over to Sage.
The only thing that keeps me from running it on WHS is you can't install a tuner in the MSS so I'd have to go with an HDHomerun.
It's almost impossible to get straight from the cable box, digital cable HDTV through Vista. This isn't an issue with Sage.


Mitch - thanks for your comments. Unfortunately I never had a chance to test out the tv function (when I was getting some wiring done in my house I had the guys also run cable to my office where I have a tv tuner card in my PC. They did that, but never hooked up the cable wire to anything :crazy: ) . Couple questions Mitch:

- with the HDHomerun are you recording directly to the MSS or recording to a PC and then transferring the files over?
- You mention the difficulties of the cable box with Vista, how are you doing this with SageTV, are you using the Hauppauge HD-PVR? I beileve Windows 7 is supposed to support the HD-PVR as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:36 am 
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I don't use a HDHomerun, so I'm not sure. It's a network tuner, so I assume it would record to the MSS if you set it up that way. I don't think it has enough power to run as a server with it's tiny 1.8GHz singlecore CPU :D.
And I didn't know they were thinking about adding HD-PVR support to Win7. They are notorious for saying they're going to add something, but end up not doing it. Or contorting it to the point where it's almost useless (DRM).
You would connect the cable box to the HD-PVR, then to the PC. I don't have one of those yet as I'm using just straight cable from the wall with no box.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:28 pm 
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MitchSchaft wrote:
I don't use a HDHomerun, so I'm not sure. It's a network tuner, so I assume it would record to the MSS if you set it up that way. I don't think it has enough power to run as a server with it's tiny 1.8GHz singlecore CPU :D.
And I didn't know they were thinking about adding HD-PVR support to Win7. They are notorious for saying they're going to add something, but end up not doing it. Or contorting it to the point where it's almost useless (DRM).
You would connect the cable box to the HD-PVR, then to the PC. I don't have one of those yet as I'm using just straight cable from the wall with no box.


Here is an article regarding Windows 7 and the HD-PVR:

http://www.geektonic.com/2009/02/hauppa ... ft-on.html

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