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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Okay so start with a EX470 server with a functioning database on it. Add a FreeAgent 1.5 TB USB drive as a non-pooled storage drive, format it. Add WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 as an Add-In. Run the Database Repair Wizard, which completes without errors. Run WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 on the EX470 and backup to the just formatted FreeAgent drive. WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 appears to complete without errors, creating a 209 GB file. Shut down the EX470 and then move the FreeAgent USB drive to a EX490. Install WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 and select restore from the FreeAgent USB drive. Restore seems to take about twice as long as the backup did. Again the Restore appears to complete without errors. Then the errors begin. Health monitor flashes a warning that the backup database has errors, and suggest that Database Repair Wizard be run. Running the wizard results in the deletion of the just installed database. Reboot the EX490 and rerun the WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 and restore again, again it appears to complete without errors to be followed by a warning that the backup database has errors. This time ignore the warning and reboot, again. After the reboot I'm still shown the backup database has errors warning and advised to run the Database repair wizard...

So what has gone wrong?


Last edited by Teknmage on Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:51 pm 
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Most likely your servers aren't at the same update level, be sure both the EX470 and EX490 are the same versions of WHS.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:08 pm 
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yakuza wrote:
Most likely your servers aren't at the same update level, be sure both the EX470 and EX490 are the same versions of WHS.


I take it by "level" you are NOT talking build level and/or Service Pack level (they are the same), but are talking version level under Resources in Windows Home Server Settings window? Version levels do not appear to effect the database, within the server, (my unit did not spend hours updating the database) both units are now at the same version level. and rerunning the database repair wizard does not show any issues with the original database. I'm doing another database creation on the EX470 will see if that solves my issue. If it does, I'd like to suggest adding the version level to the backup database name by default. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:33 pm 
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By level I meant the versions displayed in the Resources settings tab, correct. I didn't see if you checked the versions on both servers, are they the same or different?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:35 pm 
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They were indeed different. They are now at the same levels. (interesting note that Power Pack 3 seems to significantly lengthen the time required to backup the database. Yet power pack three does not appear to have made any direct changes to the database. At least it did not require any significant time to upgrade to power pack three).

Previously the database was 209 GB after the installation of Power Pack 3 the same database grew to become 293 GB, 40% bigger...


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:29 am 
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Well my laptop was back up under both Vista 64 bit (oldest in time) and Windows 7 (newest in time) insuring both servers where at the same level resulted in the Windows 7 backups being cloned, while the Vista 64 backups where lost. This time after the backup was recovered I was informed that the backup service was not running, and to restart my computer.

This tends to confirm in my mind the need to record the "level" of the system with the backup information. The "backup" on the EX470 span approximately a years worth of time, and I'm sure where preformed under various service levels, while all backups are viewable on the EX470 (running the backup database wizard on the 470 finds no errors) only the most recent backups under Windows 7 appear to be accessible on the EX490 after the backup database was cloned. The computer is listed for the Vista backup with the OS as unknown and zero backups are shown for it. :(

Under the previous service level the backup database backup was 209 GB, after upgrading to service pack 3 the backup database backup grew to 293 GB a 40% increase in size, and took hours longer to create. Is there the possibility that the backup database under service pack three with WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 is being read wrong?

I'm now creating a backup of the just cloned database on the EX490, I'm curious as to the total size of this database. I would expect it to be smaller, logically as the Vista backups have been deleted, a worst case scenario would be the size remains constant, and if there is indeed an issue with WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 for it to "grow" once again. Any predictions as to what I might see?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:05 am 
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Teknmage wrote:
They were indeed different. They are now at the same levels. (interesting note that Power Pack 3 seems to significantly lengthen the time required to backup the database. Yet power pack three does not appear to have made any direct changes to the database. At least it did not require any significant time to upgrade to power pack three).

Previously the database was 209 GB after the installation of Power Pack 3 the same database grew to become 293 GB, 40% bigger...



Good to hear, different versions is the only reason I know of that WHS would purge backups. Out of curiosity which system did not have PP3? Most commonly the scenario is that BDBB restore system (your 490 in this case) is not up to the most recent version of WHS due to not all updates being applied during setup (after a Recovery, for example, there are always more updates to get than are picked up during the initial check for updates). If your 490 was PP3 and your 470 was pre-PP3, I'm a bit surprised that the newer code on the 490 couldn't handle the older DB but again I've not tested that.

The backups are larger after PP3 is installed due to WHS now backing up Temp directories that it previously excluded.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:10 am 
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Teknmage wrote:
I'm now creating a backup of the just cloned database on the EX490, I'm curious as to the total size of this database. I would expect it to be smaller, logically as the Vista backups have been deleted, a worst case scenario would be the size remains constant, and if there is indeed an issue with WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 for it to "grow" once again. Any predictions as to what I might see?


If you've not read the Computer Backup Whitepaper (linked in the BDBB Wiki, Readme, and also the Help dialog in the Server Console) I'd suggest you give it a look. BDBB just copies files, it does not do any reading, modifying, or analyzing of the database.

I expect you'll see the same size or smaller, though it's possible the backup service marked the unrecognized backups for deletion to occur at the next Backup Cleanup (occurs weekly) rather than immediately delete them.

I'm curious if you chose the "Restore registry settings" option during the restore?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:46 am 
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yakuza wrote:
Good to hear, different versions is the only reason I know of that WHS would purge backups. Out of curiosity which system did not have PP3? Most commonly the scenario is that BDBB restore system (your 490 in this case) is not up to the most recent version of WHS due to not all updates being applied during setup (after a Recovery, for example, there are always more updates to get than are picked up during the initial check for updates). If your 490 was PP3 and your 470 was pre-PP3, I'm a bit surprised that the newer code on the 490 couldn't handle the older DB but again I've not tested that.


My EX470 was at a beta PP3 level the EX490 was fully up to date. So the older Vista backups were not coming through, would not be normal?

yakuza wrote:
The backups are larger after PP3 is installed due to WHS now backing up Temp directories that it previously excluded.


I believe I find this confusing, just where are these Temp directories located? On my PC correct?
yakuza wrote:
I’m very pleased to report that with the recent release of Power Pack 3 for Windows Home Server, this issue has been resolved and our beloved temp directories are now being successfully backed up every night.


Yet the PC has not been backed up on the EX470 after installing Power Pack 3 (final) so no temp directories have been added to the backup database... What I am seeing is WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 increasing it's backup file from 209 GB to 293 GB just by the addition of Power Pack 3... The backup database is frozen so no new backups have occurred to it after adding power pack three. The last backup on the EX470 occurred 75 days ago. When I run WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 backup doesn't it backup just the existing backup database? Or does it now for some reason copy every temp directory it finds as well?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:17 am 
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yakuza wrote:
If you've not read the Computer Backup Whitepaper (linked in the BDBB Wiki, Readme, and also the Help dialog in the Server Console) I'd suggest you give it a look. BDBB just copies files, it does not do any reading, modifying, or analyzing of the database.

I expect you'll see the same size or smaller, though it's possible the backup service marked the unrecognized backups for deletion to occur at the next Backup Cleanup (occurs weekly) rather than immediately delete them.

I'm curious if you chose the "Restore registry settings" option during the restore?


So it sounds like I have an issue then. The backup database on my EX470 has had no new backups preformed on it in 75 days. It is frozen if you will. Backing it up with WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 under my Beta Power Pack 3 results in a 209 GB file. Updating the EX470 by uninstalling the Beta Power Pack 3 and then installing Power Pack 3 took less than thirty minutes. Running the Backup Database repair Wizard finds no issues with the database on the EX470 after the Power Pack three update. The windows Vista backups are viewable on the EX470. WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 now creates a 293 GB image of the *same* database, where did the extra 84 GB come from? Possibly from the backup Database repair Wizard moving files around... If that is the case then it would be desirable to clean the database before preforming a backup of it in WHS BDBB. But the basic issue of why the Windows Vista backups are not cloning remains. They are viewable on the EX470 under version 6.0.2423.0 why are they no longer viewable on the EX490 under 6.0.2423.0?

The EX copies the database at 293 GB also.

Have now run a cleanup and then the backup database repair wizard, and am backing up the database on the EX490 once again to see if it is now smaller. Both the cleanup and repair completed in less than ten minutes, leading me to think they found nothing.

And yes I did import the registry settings. :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Ok so the WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 image size after running the database cleanup and the backup database repair wizard remains at 293 GB... When the image is created on the EX490 even though the EX490 has zero access to the vista backup images.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Teknmage wrote:
My EX470 was at a beta PP3 level the EX490 was fully up to date. So the older Vista backups were not coming through, would not be normal?

No, I would expect all backups to be available.

Teknmage wrote:
I believe I find this confusing, just where are these Temp directories located? On my PC correct?

Yes, on the client PC. I understand now that you are not doing further backups and so the DB size should not be growing.

Teknmage wrote:
What I am seeing is WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 increasing it's backup file from 209 GB to 293 GB just by the addition of Power Pack 3... The backup database is frozen so no new backups have occurred to it after adding power pack three. The last backup on the EX470 occurred 75 days ago. When I run WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 backup doesn't it backup just the existing backup database? Or does it now for some reason copy every temp directory it finds as well?


Please understand that isn't "increasing it's backup file", it's simply copying all the files that reside in the WHS Backups Application Folder. I suspect your running the Database Repair is causing the size changes. What's the reason for running the Repair? To my knowledge there's no reason to run it unless you are getting an error.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Teknmage wrote:
Ok so the WHS BDBB 1.0.2.2 image size after running the database cleanup and the backup database repair wizard remains at 293 GB... When the image is created on the EX490 even though the EX490 has zero access to the vista backup images.


My only remaining thought is that perhaps since the Clients are old, there is something in the database or registry keys that have not been updated. I believe there were some improvements made to the way WHS detects backups, such that it will identify clients in the Backup DB even if they aren't configured in the server console (which can remove the necessity of the client registry keys). I'd try another restore but this time do NOT restore the registry keys, and see what happens.

If this doesn't work, I'm afraid I'm running out of ideas. You can check the logs on the Home Server and see if you find any useful error messages.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:47 pm 
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So I took my production (been running for >2 years) EX475 and made a BDBB backup to my EX495, I restored it there without restoring the registry keys, and I have been able to open all backups. I have one that hasn't been backed up since 3/27/2008 (that's before PP1) and it opened no problems. I realize this doesn't help resolve the failure you are experiencing, but hopefully it serves as a data point that this process can work just fine. :cheers:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:42 am 
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yakuza wrote:
So I took my production (been running for >2 years) EX475 and made a BDBB backup to my EX495, I restored it there without restoring the registry keys, and I have been able to open all backups. I have one that hasn't been backed up since 3/27/2008 (that's before PP1) and it opened no problems. I realize this doesn't help resolve the failure you are experiencing, but hopefully it serves as a data point that this process can work just fine. :cheers:


Interesting,,,,
Why without restoring the registry keys? I was under the impression that one would want to restore the keys? Having restored the keys once is there a way to unrestore the keys? If I simply restore again without importing the registry keys will this remove/undo the effects of having restored with the option to import the keys?


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