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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 3:01 am 
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I have had my Ex490 from new (April 2010) and have only had a few minor problems with it over the years!
It sits behind 2 firewalls and is only used on the internal home network where it is accessed by over 20 devices from TV's to Laptops games devices and mobile phones.
The Ex490 has not been configured to support external access.

The server is stock and has not been modified - other than to implement new drives.
I am on WHS v1 Service pack 2 PP3
Attachment:
EX490.jpg
EX490.jpg [ 528.34 KiB | Viewed 8665 times ]


The Home Server SMART Classic add-in is reporting that the system disk has a few problems and needs to be replaced.

Seagate ST31000528AS Barracuda 7200.12
-Bad Sectors 4094
-Pending Bad Sectors 1
-Reallocation Events 4094
Attachment:
EX490-1.jpg
EX490-1.jpg [ 377.21 KiB | Viewed 8665 times ]


Other symptoms are that from time to time I cannot connect to the EX490 and a re-boot is required.

My questions are:

1) If I decide to carry out a System restore on a new drive , what state will the O/S be in ( are the patches service packs and PP3's available?)
Is the current 20gb systems software already backed up on one of the other drives and put onto the new Disk ?

2) What drive should I purchase?
Normally I would just order a 1 or 2 TB 7200rpm 3.5" drive and not be concerned about anything else.
What is the current recommended drive ?

3) I have seen the many notes about cloning the System drive. Can you tell me why I would consider Cloning over just carrying out a standard system recovery and I am not sure why that is an advantage over doing the System Restore.

4) I have been very happy with the EX490 and other than considering a CPU upgrade have not really thought about changing anything.
The Server is not outward facing and is only accessible from the home network (no remote use or access has been allowed)
However as WHS v1 support stopped sometime ago, is this the point to consider a replacement OS ?
What would you recommend - 2011 / 2012 or something else ?

I am sure that these questions have been asked in the past, but the answers may not be relevant in 2016.

Grateful for any help that you can provide!


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:43 am 
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Part of the answer is (do you still have the 3 disks that the server came with or do you have those plus the New PP3 disks?)
Without disks (cd's) that came with it, then you can not do anything except maybe a clone, I would not clone, it is many steps and I have seen mixed results from doing so.

Lets go on assuming you have the CD's to perform a recovery.
What drive to buy, that is a personal thing, some buy WD blacks, some buy Seagates (like it came with) some buy WD reds.
WD blacks are fast and run hot, WD reds are a little slower but run cooler, seagates are somewhere in the middle.
Max drive size factory is 2 tb. Some have hacked 3tb drives but I would not/have not.

Win 2011 and win 2012E and R2 will run on your hardware, but you would want to have the vga cable to see what your doing IMHO.

I plan on running whs v1 for as long as I can, all my clients are win7 and 1 vista. I do not plan on upgrading to win 10 anytime soon.

I have upgraded the ram and cpu in my servers, I have the main server that backups 9 pc's and I have a second server that I synctoy all my shares to every couple months.
Like yours, it is not accessed from outside the network.
I also use 2 non-pooled drives to do backups of the shared data and keep 1 drive offsite.

So, what works for one may not be what works for another. You will have to make that call.

Why I stay with WHS and not a NAS is because the data is stored in the NTFS and I can pull a drive and retrieve my data with any pc and a usb to sata dock.
Most NAS'es you can not say that.
I also like the size, the lights and the connector/backups are a bonus.

Hope this helps, always have a backup of the data you can't lose no matter what you use. Keep the server clean/blown out of dust and dust bunnies and I always keep a few extra drives/power supplies around just in case.

Good luck and let us know which way you went.....

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:40 am 
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Just checked and I have all 3 original disks that came with the EX490 :

PC Restore V3.0
Server Recovery Disk v3.0
Software Installation Disk v3.0

I am not sure if PP3 is included on those drives or not.

With respect to the drives, I read something about needing to be aware of Advanced Format and that it can be a problem.
Is this still the case and If I got the WD drives you mentioned, do I need to look for any particular models?

I agree with your other comments. to a degree I like the size and simplicity.
However, I am aware that the hardware can support a lot more ( admittedly with a couple of hardware upgrades).
2011 seems a pointless implementation and 2012 Essentials may have a longer support life, but can the EX490 really support it out of the box or does it need some extra work.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2016 8:05 pm 
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I get the WD reds, they are plug and play, but they are not 7200 rpm.
Some of the advance format drives have a jumper on them that needs to be set.
The WD blacks I believe you should be ok.
Do you have a preference on drive manufactures?
Do you live in the hot part of the world or a cooler part of the world, heat may make a difference.
Do you feel the need for the 7200 rpm or would something a little slower work for you?

What is your main drive now (seagate) was what came in them.

Once you get your drive 2TB IMO then you would want to do the recovery (Not Reset) with all the drives in place with the new drive in the bottom bay.

If you have never done a recovery let us know and we can give you a quick list of how it goes.

I have two copies of win 2011, didn't really like it, I have a DIY win2012E box that I don't really like either.
But the ex-490 could run win2012E with a ram and cpu upgrade.

The hardware is 64 bit ready, so if at some point you went win2011 or win2012E then you will be able to use larger drives.

Hope this helps, let us know how it's going. But, before the recovery, make sure you have your data you can't lose backed up. Recoveries can go south.
Good luck

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:38 am 
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I am in the North of England (UK) - so not the hottest place on the planet and the serever is situated in a room that is kept reasonably cool.

The original system drive is a 1TB Seagate. (7200.12)
I would have replaced this with a Seagate ST2000DM001 (7200.14) drive, but the recent reviewes on that drive have been very poor.
Something to do with the quality of the build in certain countries.Either way, I didnt want to take a risk.

I would have selected the WD Red 2tb, but the reduced speed coupled with my original EX490 CPU made me a little concerned about performace. I do have a spare Intel E5800 that I will fit at sometime, but not just yet.

In the end I have decided to order and install the WD Black WD20EFRX 2TB 7200rpm unit.

As to my original question about replaceing WHS v1 with 2011, 2012 Essentials or something else ?
Again for now I am going to leave the server on WHS, but I may look at win 8.1 as a future alternative, but not 2011 or 2012.
Until the OS change, I dont see much point in upgrading the existing 2GB ram.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 8:08 am 
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Awesome! Sounds like your headed in the right direction.
That CPU is what I use and you will find the cpu actually runs a bit cooler (I think it has to work less) the ram upgrade I did not see much improvement, it normally runs using 1 to 1.5 gig memory with Whs v1. But I did the cpu and ram cause I could and it makes it a little snappier with the 2tb reds, I have 3 2tb reds in it 1 for the os and two for the pool. It runs pretty cool which I like.
But if you did upgrade the os, the ram would most likely come in handy.

Some people are getting the video cable and going win 7/ win 8 / win8.1/ win10 even. I was worried about these os'es finding drivers, but from what I hear they do.

As far as the seagate drives, I don't want to start up that fight, but I do not care for the seagate line, I think they are cheaper for a reason, but some of the seagates that cost more seem to do better and some people swear by them.

Good luck on your recovery, you might want to contact WD or maybe someone here can check your drive and let you know if you need to do the Jumper/align thing.

You just need to know if you use your drive as a OS win 2003 server drive, does it need the jumper and/or the align tool run on it. Hopefully it is plug n play.
You can search for advanced format drives, I'm sure you will find lots of info on it in these threads.

Let us know how it's going or if your having any problems, there are many good people still here :D

This is still the best site for these servers , I believe :mss:

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 1:32 am 
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Just to make sure that I dont misslead anyone, I have to be honest and say that in my last post I said that I purchased a WD Black and gave a product code. That code was incorrect!

The actual product that I have is a WD Black WD2003FZEX.

Has anyone got any experience of installing this in an EX49x with WHS v1 ?


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:58 am 
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Looks like it is an advanced format drive:
This link should help.
https://community.wd.com/t/is-wd2002faex-an-advanced-format-drive-or-not/14360

Most likely you will need the jumper and/or the WD align tool.
Good Luck

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:43 am 
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I finally got around to installing the new 2tb drive to replace the previous Seagate 1tb which held the OS.

My primary concern with replacing the OS drive was always going to be about the availability of software patches from HP and Microsoft to ensure that the EX490 was brought back in the same state as before the drive replacement.

The new WD Black drive installed without incident, did not require any changes and worked straight out of the box.
I followed the Instructions in the HP manual (for a System Restore) and apart from having to run the software install twice there were no issues with the setup on the EX490 or the Windows 10 PC.

Fortunately and with a little work, I managed to get the original HP v3.0 Patch 1, 2 & 3 from HP and a couple of Microsoft updates.

Once the EX490 was initialised and stable, I set up all the previous user accounts (with confirmation from the OS that they were all using the existing user folders) and then compared the system information with the previous details that I had recorded.

All looked good until I realised that half of the original folders were there, but on inspection were found to be empty.
This was a shock as ALL the folders on the system had been set to duplicate (Folder Duplication switched on).

Fortunately I backed up all the Users, Photo and Business folders to a separate PC, but there are still a couple of very large folders that are missing significant files.

So a couple of questions for the experts….

1. Is it normal for a replacement of a failed OS drive (which contained non OS data in duplicated folders) to affect the folder duplication on the rest of the device ?

2. Is it possible that I have not given the OS enough time to rebuild the duplicated folders and that after 24-36 hours I will suddenly find that my data files have been restored ?

3. If the previous content is not restored or visible, is it possible to recover the original data files for the folders ?
Prior to the replacement of the OS, I checked ALL folders and their content and was happy that nothing was missing, so I know that the data files were there.

4. The big selling point to me was the Folder Duplication across multiple HDD’s.
This is now making me think that the EX490 and the whole premise was a bit of a mistake and other than taking regular backups to other external drives, I am no more secure that if I used a Windows 7,8,10 PC with lots of storage. Is this something that you have seen before?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:26 am 
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Well, good for you upgrading that OS drive to 2tb, that will come in handy later.
Missing stuff on a OS recovery: I have tried two server OS recoveries and both failed.
But, I backup all data outside of the server so was able to do a factory reset and a data copy back.

Duplication as you have found, Don't trust it. But to be fair, you never have a single point of failure (which would be all data on the server only)
Say a power surge hit that server and fried all drives? Or you had a fire or the house flooded.

I have on-site backup to another server with sync-toy. And I do Non-pooled share backups on the server and rotate out the backup set off-site.
So really I have 4 copies of my data. Over kill, but I can't lose that data.

Now, will your folders come back after awhile, I doubt it, it should have done all the file rebuild during the recovery.
Getting your data back, doubtful.

Sorry, and I hope this helps.
Good Luck

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:55 am 
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I just noticed, you said you used the new WD black "without" doing anything to it. I think we checked it and it was a advanced format drive?
If it is an advanced Format Drive and is not prepped correctly and used for a OS drive, it will most likely give you problems.
May not do it right away, but it will. Maybe that is where the folders went????
Good Luck.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:31 am 
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my system crashed. I had to get a new hard drive. I have an older backup on my WHS but I can see the server when computer is on but when I run the Restore Wizard I cannot find my server.

I have a USB with the driver info and that seams to work.


HELP!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:49 am 
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To the OP - I have had the need to do 2 server recoveries. The first was due to a data disk crash. There was only 1 system drive and 1 data drive and duplication was turned on. I replaced both of the original Seagate 1TB drives with 3 WD 1TB RE drives which are native non-advanced format. The file system was corrupted when the data drive crashed and flagged all folders as unhealthy. Even after the recovery, the folders were flagged as unhealthy and needed to do a full restore. Fortunately, I had separate backups and was able to restore once I got the system fully installed and patched to the last available levels. (had to keep forcing the updates manually until there were no more available.)

The WD drives definitely run hotter by about 8-10 degrees than the Seagates. I added 2 usb pancake fans to the back of the EX490 to assist in cooling.

More recently, my system drive crashed. The crashed system drive warned me (through SMART) that the failure was imminent so I did manage to logically remove the 2 data drives before the total failure occurred. I kept the original Seagate system drive which was still running well when I replaced it and figured that it should run. I removed all of the drives and plugged in the old Seagate and it booted right up however it was still showing the old unhealthy folders so I decided to do a restore (just the system drive mounted). After all the updates, the standard folders were all showing as healthy and empty. I added back the data drives and they were recognized but all of the folders were still empty. Fortunately, I had backups and once again did a full data restore to get all of the data back.

Regarding the comment about the value of the duplication, I suppose that it has value in the case of a single data drive failure where you can logically remove the drive and all of the data is still housed elsewhere on the server so it will get re-duplicated when a good drive gets added. In my experiences where the file system got corrupted and then when the O/S drive crashed, the duplication didn't provide value. Only my backups came to the rescue in both cases.

Which leads me to start a thread posing the question of whether to clone the system drive in order to have a ready backup or just wait until the next failure and deal with it then.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:24 pm 
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I posted to your clone or not thread.
Backups are a must have as you have found. With duplication turned on and you perform a recovery with a new system drive, all the data drives must be in the system with the new drive so it can access them and included them during the recovery. That is why the folders were empty.

Duplication is not a backup, you are correct and if you have compound problems it will most likely not save you.
But you can not clone a drive and let it set and expect to use it later, unless it is setup as a single (no pc attached/ no data) because your system will change and the clone setting on the shelf will not.
The system drive keeps track of what is on the other drives, so they live and die together.

I have pondered these same things as I have not had good luck doing recoveries with good drives. (I have heard of many others that have) it just didn't work for me. So backups , factory resets and copy backs are the way I go.

I will leave the rest in your other post. Good Luck.

P.S. If I were to run out of room with the drives in the server, I would turn off duplication before I would go external. But that's just me.
I also don't count on the client backups, I have had problems with a couple of them as well, so I tell my clients to keep all their data on the server where it can be backed up.
I keep the backups on (just in case) they delete something they were working on or get a virus, but I don't count on them. It is just as easy to reload the clients clean and have all the data safe on the server.

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