I decided i wanted to upgrade my ageing HT setup and looked at smart tv's (which turned out to be not so smart) then i looked at storing all my music & movies on a NAS drive, then someone suggested id be better off with a server, then i found out id still need a streamer, so why not build a media pc and have a nas drive????

I'm very confused about which way to go, so maybe you guy's could help guide me?

What i want to be able to do is:

record, play, pause TV multiple channels
rip all my media to HDD and stream it around the house to TV's or players (not other pc's)
be able to use it as a pc to edit store and catalogue my photos and out put them to my printer (semi pro basis) using CS5 and lightroom
must be able to output 7.1 to my amp
need to aim for 20 TB in raid 5
i am starting to use servers as part of my job so it wouldn't be a bad thing to start playing! i have copies of win 7 ultimate and sql server 2008 workgroup that i can use
i will build the system myself and will be pestering you for component advice when i chosen my poison (so to speak!)

HELP

Hi markvk welcome to the forums!

What you appear to be looking for are one or more media extenders which you may or may not need depending on if your TV's are DLNA or not, a central storage solution and getting everything to work together. Now thats within the home but if you want to extend that to outside the home that can be done too.

Now for Media Streaming the best goto source would be Danian who has written extensively on this topic. He writes about MediaStreaming, Media Extenders, HTPC's. I would urge you to take some time and review his articles which I believe will educate you about what is available to you and how it works. Beware its all addictive stuff.

Centralized storage to hold your media and whatever else you can think of is somewhat of a personal choice. This being a Windows Home Server Enthusiasts site will have most pointing you towards WHS or Windows Home Server be it v1 or 2011 or both. Now there are other alternatives a NAS utilizing Win 7's Home Group and such but here you will find most of use lean towards WHS because its flexiable, simple to use offers remote access and has a solid client backup and restore capbability.

You can eaily build your own WHS as many of us have. The site has many forums some for specific manufactured server models, Do It Yourself or DIY Builds, Troubleshooting and so forth which you can scan through and learn about what others have to say about WHS.

You mention RAID 5 and the only thing I can say about this is if you want to do it properly its expensive. There is the inexpesnice Software RAID which is slower than the more expensive Hardware RAID. While some do attempt to use consumer drives in a RAID Array I am not quite sure how well they work over time in that one would expect consumer drives not to be able to hold up to the task and have drop out issues that RAID class drives do not have. With WHS v1 they have their own software file redundancy feature called DE it works its simple and if a drive has an issue you can pull out it an read it which is something you can not do with a drive in a RAID Array. WHS2011 does not have a DE feature but there are 3rd party replacements Drive Bender and Stablebit. Similar to WHSv1 you can pull drives and still read them unless of course they have failed but if you need to remove them you can always install a replacement and life goes on. These are not quite as fast as RAID but do allow you to use the lower cost consumer drives. Now if your willing to spend the money and do RAID Properly then I would say go for it.

The last thing I would have to mention about your desire to build something regardless of what it is I would urge you to review your need for storage because movies will take up alot of hard drive space depending on the format you chose. Some like AVI or MP4 formats because they do not take up lots of space but in using those formats you lose video quality but if you settle in with say ISO or MKV then you get the quality but the space requirement becomes larger and when you add in redundancy meaning you want to have a 2nd copy in the event of a drive failure well you get the picture. The point here is to figure out what your storage needs will be today and try to figure out a path for growth which may cost your abit more upfront but over time actually save you quite abit of money. If your storage needs are small then selecting an enclosure will not be difficult.

So to get unconfused the best thing you can do is ask questions which you already started doing and read about what is available to you. Then you can begin to develope a solution which works best for you. Right now things maybe abit overwelming and thats understandable but as you review whats available then in no time at all you will find your solution. I will tell you honestly a couple years back I spent 3 months just playing with video file formats just trying to figure out what worked best for me and then I spent the next 6 months ripping over 500 DVD's and continue ripping as my collection grows. This brings me back to Damians articles because he actually pointed me in the right direction but what I do is try to keep things as simple as possible.

Good Luck and I hope I did not add any additional confusion for you as I just want to point you in various directions to allow you to form a more educated opinion that works best for your needs, wants and desires.

_________________
Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8

Always a pleasure reading your posts, Comp1962! I'm looking for neither a storage solution nor a streaming solution and your reply was still a good read!

thanks Comp 1962, it was one of Damian's reviews that led me here, along with the comments from a vendor that seemed to think id be better off with a server rather than a synology 1512 NAS drive i can extend the nas up to 60 TB. so plenty of space, i can access it with both my MAC an pc's, i can access it remotely and use it for web hosting as a mail server. I know if i use this route i can ether build a media pc or use a media player but thats for a different forum. so here are couple of questions to set off with.

What benefit do i gain by building a server rather that using a nas?

if i build a server can i build a media pc into it or is it better to use a separate machine?

once I've got those question answered i can then make the next choice.

The benifit is flexibilty you can install software to add functions to a server where as with a NAS you have whatever it came with. If your NAS Hardware failes then you would need to replace the hardware to read the drives. With WHS you can simply pull your drives and access your data of course this would not be the case if you use RAID. WHS also provides a Backup Solution for your Windows Clients. For a while you could backup a MAC but something changed there and I have no real clue about Mac Backups but I do know if your MAC can see the server you can access the files but for more detailed info on that subject matter you need to ask those who use WHS and a MAC. I have an older MAC that I can access files on my WHS but thats all I know about that.

I use to use a NAS and when I got my first Server I retired the NAS and never looked back. The NAS servered me well for quite a few years but WHS opened up a who new world of options for me and if there is one thing I enjoy most is the client backups and knowing the recovery process works extremely well.

I suppose you can use a NAS and have any computer run software and do the same thing as you can do with a server but to have everything contained in one enclosue server your every want, need and desire. It really comes down to what your needs are and what works best for you and best fits within your comfort level.

I will admit I am bias when it comes to WHS but thats because I enjoy having them. I continue to run WHSv1 and I built a couple WHS2011 servers one for testing and the other for storing and managing my media and my family also enjoy using it and they live over 1,000 miles from me.

So servers provide access inside and outside the home to whatever I put on them. Only downfall is they rely on internet connectivity and electricity but so does a NAS. So chose which ever works best for your needs.

_________________
Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8

OK, sorry for the delay, found your thread.

Let's start with the first part, you want to record, play, etc... Live TV. This has to be broken down into two parts:

(1) In order to record live TV you will need to have a Server/PC (running preferably Windows 7) + CableCard/TunerCard to handle the PVR duties. Now keep in mind you will only be able to watch live TV via whatever tv/monitor you have connected to this server/pc (i.e. this isn't something you would be able to access via other media players).

(2) As far as actually watching your recorded TV, assuming you are using WMC to record, the file format (wtv) will only be playable on a Windows PC (and possibly only the PC that did the recording if the recording is DRM'd). There are programs out there (such as MCEBuddy) that run in the background, will cut out commercials and convert the recordings to a format that other media players can use.

(3) Optional (the dark side). There are services (such as via a Newsgroup) where you can automatically schedule grabbing tv shows from the net as they are made available, have them named properly, etc... A popular setup for doing this is SABNzbd + Sickbeard. Of course this gets a bit into the grey area, but thought I would mention

Based on everything else you are stating, it seems you best bet would be to build a Windows 7 PC/Server + RAID. This will give you the most flexibility when it comes to software, streaming, PVR duties, etc... I haven't messed around with Windows 8 enough yet to give any thoughts on whether it would be a better fit. The only thing you want to be careful of, the more you use your "server" as a normal PC the more you risk messing up settings (not saying that it could happen, but for me I want my server to be 100% reliable, so I limit any PC type duties). This is not set in stone, but I like to mention

I would then use media players around your house to actually playback your media (choices being Dune, PCH, Mede8er, etc...).

Just as an FYI, my current setup is as such:

- WHS v1 Server (16 HDDs with approx 28TB HDD). All media is stored here, all metadata is managed here, all streaming is done from here via cat5e/cat6
- Live TV recording is done on my Windows 7 desktop PC (WHSv1 does not support) via CableCard Tuner and/or QAM Tuner (I also do have some of the "grey" stuff set up for tv shows as needed)
- All ripping is done on my desktop PC and then once done just copied over to my server (just preference here as my desktop PC is better suited for ripping then my server)
- Throughout the house I have about 4-6 media players for playback of all my content. I also have a Sonos players for music playback.

Comp1962 did an excellent job in answering, but hopefully this provides some additional help as well.

_________________
Cheers,
Damian

DIY WHS - 12.5TB and growing, too many gadgets to list

Did you read the MediaSmartServer blog today?
Blog - http://www.adigitalhomeblog.com
"Like a midget at a urinal, stay on your toes!" - Lieutenant Frank Drebin

I agree about ripping media on a PC rather than a server. I use what I call a sacrifical drive to store the ripped media and when I am happy with the media I move it to the server. My term sacrificial is simply meaning that if it gets fragmented its no big deal I just reformat it and start using it again.

I never use my servers as a desktop PC. I only do whats absolutely necessary and nothing more.

These two things which dbone1026 points out are very important when it comes to keeping your server in good working order. You will read others indicating they use their servers to automatically rip media and while they may be comfortable doing so I would urge you not too do such things.

I can tell you this much once you get started storing your media and streaming it in the home or online its very addicting. I would urge you to spend some time exploring which video formats would work best for you so that once you begin ripping you will be confident in your choice. Nothing worse then ripping hundreds of DVDs or Blu-Rays only to find you found another format you would like to use.

_________________
Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8

Yeah, I think it is a matter of figuring what is the most important/crucial feature. If data storage/streaming is top priority then you definitely want to try and limit your server use (last thing you want is some process kicking in when you are trying to stream movies). Really a tough call, you can't go wrong either way, you just need to exercise much more caution if you look to build an all in one Server/PC

Awesome point as well about ripping formats. What are your thoughts on this OP? I know in part it will probably come down to the type of media players you use, but what type of media are you looking to rip, do you want it to also be accessed remotely, etc...

Good topic here

_________________
Cheers,
Damian

DIY WHS - 12.5TB and growing, too many gadgets to list

Did you read the MediaSmartServer blog today?
Blog - http://www.adigitalhomeblog.com
"Like a midget at a urinal, stay on your toes!" - Lieutenant Frank Drebin

These are very good points. I think it needs reiterating that whatever you use to be your media "server," do NOT let it become a general purpose workstation. I know it can be very tempting, especially if you build a killer DIY box, to have it perform double, triple or even quadruple duty with other tasks. While there's nothing that says you can't do that, you're likely going to sacrifice performance and possibly (probably) start introducing problems.

I have two HP MediaSmart Servers running WHS 2011. They're almost identical...one's an EX487 and the other's an EX490. Each has been upgraded to an E5300 processor and 4 GB of RAM. The EX487's job is to be my backup server. It's a multitasker. It does two jobs, backups and remote access, and it does those jobs well. I don't put anything else on it. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it. )

The EX490 is a unitasker. It's my shared media server. That's all it does...shares files. It has an SSD for the system disk and paging file and 3 x 1 TB HDDs in its internal bays. An external 4-drive enclosure houses 4 x 2 TB Hitachi Deathstar HDDs. These combine into a Drive Bender pool with the 3 x 1 TB drives and I enjoy a blazing fast multimedia experience. This server also has 2 x 2 TB USB drives, which are pooled into a separate Drive Bender pool. These house miscellaneous files that do not require fast performance.

The important thing to stress here is that I do not use these servers for other tasks. It would be tempting to install something like SharePoint or SQL Server on them, but the key is that once you start doubling and tripling up roles onto them, you're going to start eating away at that performance whilst introducing subtle, mysterious problems at the same time.

Damian is a big fan of RAID, and I am too. The next time I build my own box that's the route I'll probably take. I work with RAID arrays at work all the time and they're incredibly resilient and extremely fast. They're expensive too, and if you want to do RAID right, it's going to cost you. Make sure you invest in a RAID controller that allows for easy expansion so you can grow the array later. Also, spend the money and get higher-end drives. Some might argue that you buy a couple of spare drives as well, so if a drive fails you can replace it with an identical model. Some RAIDs can suffer performance degradation if you start mixing and matching drives, particularly if you mix capacities or drive speeds (i.e. if you have an array full of 7200 RPM drives and you put in a 5400 RPM drive, you just slowed the whole array down to 5400 performance).

Lastly...home networking. Gigabit is the way to go. Like Damian uses, go with CAT5e/6 cabling and make sure you use a Gigabit router and, if necessary, Gigabit switches if needed. I have AT&T U-verse, and the gateway is only 100 Mbps, and the wireless is b/g (11-54 Mbps). So I bought a Linksys E3200 which is Gigabit and supports 802.11 b/g/n, so I enjoy wireless speeds in the range of 200-300 Mbps. One of my laptops, which runs Microsoft SharePoint Server 2010, only has a 100 Mbps Ethernet connector so I connect it wirelessly instead, and it enjoys a rock solid, fast wireless connection. I disabled the wireless on the U-verse gateway, and there's a single connection from the E3200 to the gateway, which is for Internet traffic. Otherwise, I have no devices using the slower 100 Mbps router. The key takeaway here is Gigabit + 802.11 b/g/n. You won't be sorry.

Matt

_________________
Matt Sawyer
Owner, Dojo North Software, LLC

HP EX490, 4GB, E5300, 15TB - Server 2012 - Sharing and Streaming
HP EX487, 4GB, E5300, 13TB - Server 2012 Essentials - Backups

WOW! thanks for all the ion guys!! I'm sorry about my tardy reply but i was in transit from work to home, so i now have 10 weeks leave to buy/build my home media system. So I've got to admit that I'm still quite confused! but i,m pretty certain that i want to go down the NAS drive and media pc route I'm looking at the synology 1512 disk station this is expandable up to 60Tb and has all the software that ill need to allow for external connection (for those remote relatives) can be used as a web hosting device, mail server, and lots more as well, it runs its own version of raid or you can configure it to raid as well if you prefer that it also allows multiple users to access the same files at the same time, and will hopefully be wife friendly because it won't need the maintenance that a server seems to need. unless I'm missing something i just don't see what a server will do for me that this unit won't, I've put a link for the unit below. Am i missing something ?
http://www.synology.com/products/produc ... 2B&lang=us

i will build a HTPC for ripping the dvd's and run all the photo editing software on there and save all the pics to the synology

I've got a projector and new Tv both of which are DLNA certified and i wanted to use WMC/my movies/slysoft any dvd to rip /display/interface my collection, but how do i connect the displays? if i use LAN will the TV/projector still display the jukebox? or would i need to connect the displays to a video output on the HTPC and if i did it that way can i have different programs on up to 4 displays? and edit photos on another?? (your going to tell me i need to run a server to do that!!!)

Regarding file types, that will depend on my final setup and what they will read but ultimately ill will want the best quality that i can get and ill ask for advice when I've nailed the hard wear .....

As i sit here typing this I'm already changing my mind!! and thinking media players might be a better option because i can rip all the dvds on my mac run a jukebox on the dune players (would slysoft work like that?)... but then what about recording tv???? back to the media pc......

well as you can see I'm still confused!!!

I was following this thread to a point.
Using a dedicated NAS, Is just that
Network Attached Storage.
Meaning it just holds the data, Just like your pc does.
Anydvd will allow you to unlock a encrypted dvd to copy.
MyMovies will allow you to manage your movie collection to send to a mediaplayer. And be compatible with many mediaplayers.
But you still will need a device at each tv to display the movie or photos.
Like say a Sony ps3 or popcorn hour. But that all depends on what you have on the front end.
If you have a server that is capable of sending trans-coded DLNA or if you need to just access raw files.
If it were me I would start on the TV side and work back to your pc,
Since you could start small with file storage using your desktop.

markvk if your still confused do not jump into anything before you educate yourself on all the pro's and con's of one solution vs another. Better to make one solid purchase than to make multiple purchases along the way until you find the solution which best suites your needs.

Another forum member Lauren is moving to a DiskStation Solution: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12462

I am certain Lauren will write about it once its running but who knows but keep an eye out for anything Lauren might write about the performance of DiskStation and any Pro's and Con's with it.

For the time being Ruben Rocha makes a valid point and one which will help you better achieve your goal through using a PC you have now to store your media and if you also have a free computer maybe you can connect it to your TV to play with the concept of an HTPC to see if it works for you or not which costs you only your time to evaluate, learn and figure out what you like and do not like.

Since your TV's are DLNA then why not look for software you can install on a PC that can stream to DLNA Devices and see how that works. Again this costs you nothing but time but should provide you with a learning experience which should help you figure out a solution which works best for you and your family.

Have fun and play with your options before purchasing anything.

_________________
Exploring the possibilities!

Migrated from WHS2011 to WS2012E: HIGHLANDER

~ Norco 4220 Enclosure
~ Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5
~ AMD Phenom II X4 995 3.2 GHz
~ 8 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
~ 3 Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8

Thank you gentlemen, i have now arrived at a solution that will work, im going to get the disk station 1512 as my file server, i will buy an external blue ray read writer for my MAC 2011, 2.3Gh quad core with 8 g ram which i run in windows for my photog business ill use this for ripping my dvd/music collection to the 1512 and set up the jukebox, as well as photo video editing and storage of my photos to the NAS.

on the output side ill use a dune media player to stream the stored files this will also act as a good UI for the wife as it will read the metadata from the jukebox I'm a little confused as how slysoft will work with the dunes / NAS system and need to sort that before i make my purchases but ill move to another forum for that. thanks for all your help.

(at least, i think it will work!)

Slysoft (AnyDVD) needs to be installed on the PC that you plan on ripping your disks from.

_________________
Cheers,
Damian

DIY WHS - 12.5TB and growing, too many gadgets to list

Did you read the MediaSmartServer blog today?
Blog - http://www.adigitalhomeblog.com
"Like a midget at a urinal, stay on your toes!" - Lieutenant Frank Drebin